The Future of Manethren

[Tuon Rocks 123]

This post is about what you think will happen with The Two Rivers. It's kind of obvious that either Perrin, Mat, or Rand is going to raise it.Perrin because, well he is sort of already it's lord, Mat because the Old Blood runs most strong in him, and Rand because he is the plain Dragon Reborn.

Anyway, give me your opinions about this subject, and if you like it check out my other posts.

[aussie_ashaman123]

i once had an idea that the Black Tower would relocate there, and use the OP to cut a road through the Mountains of Mist to make trade possible with the West.

 

I dont think Elayne will invade the Two Rivers, shell get her soilders to the north side of the Taren and the Ferry will be on the other side. :P

 

It could be that the Seanchan are so impressed with the Two Rivers Longbow when they take over, theyll take Manatheren into there army as a whole and turn them into their own company

[Tuon Rocks 123]

Thanks for being the first person to reply

[Luckers]

Manetheren is dead, and its very doubtful it will come back--it's in the past and this series is moving toward the future. Manetheren won't return any more than Malkier, or than all channelers--men and women both--suddenly rejoining the Tower and all becoming Aes Sedai. It's dead, it's gone, and it won't be back--especially given Perrin gave up the Red Eagle as a part of his deal with the Seanchan, and Perrin is very dutiful in holding to what he says he'll do.

 

Tuon if i may suggest you might like the structures wheel of time board. It's done much more in the method of your postings.

[benr]

With Perrin likely headed north, with Faile (if they survive TG), I expect the Manetheran craze to die down.  The Two Rivers folk, though - how do you keep them down on the farm when they've seen the big city?  The growth of the area with all of the refugees could make it difficult for Elayne to reclaim it as part of Andor - they haven't really felt a part of it for some time.  A problem for Elayne - with Rand, Mat, and Egwene still calling it their ancestral home, too.  Interesting.

[Majsju]

To use the wise words of Sex Pistols...No future for you!

 

And Luckers said pretty much what I was thinking.

[aussie_ashaman123]

I still like my idea of the Black Tower claiming it and blowing a pass through to the Almoth Plains, that'd make the Two Rivers one of the major nexuses for trade

[RAND AL THOR]

Luckers pretty much said it.

 

Also, the Black Tower will be destroyed in AMoL (Elaida's fortelling, remember?)

 

I disagree about Malkier though. I think it will return. Nynaeve insists on following the Malkier customs. It will be great if Lan and Nynaeve rule a recovered Malkier after TG. Of course, the population will not be Malkieri since they are all but dead. Perhaps some of the Twor Rivers folk?

[Saidar]

There is no future for Manetheren. It's six feet under...

 

 

 

Oh and the Black Tower isn't gonna get destroyed, is it?

[aevogt]

"The Black Tower will be rent in fire and blood"  That's not the same as saying it will be destroyed.  Considering the factions there, it should come as no surprise.

 

Taim's favorites

Logain's boys and their Aes Sedai (Elaida's)

Egwene's Aes Sedai bonded to Ash'aman

 

This could turn uglier than a disapproving mother-in-law very quickly.

 

As for Malkier, Min had a viewing of Lan with 7 towers around his head.  I read a quote from Rj indicating that all of Min's visions pertained to the future so this one would seem to indicate that there is a future for Lan and Malkier.  Whether it's lands are reclaimed when the blight receeds after the DO is imprisoned for good, or whether the rest of the borderland leaders are killed in at TG and the those countries, now without leadership, look to Lan as their ruler, makes no difference. 

 

I know Luckers is going to disagree, but according to that vision, Malkier has a future.

 

Manetheran on the other hand.  Perrin has come right out and said, to Tylee Kirghan at least, that he relinquishes all efforts to ressurect Manetheran.  Perrin keeps his word so if it crops up, it won't be him.  he didn't want to in any event.

 

 

[Majsju]

Mins viewings seems to be something RJ adjusted later, considering that she saw blood in Taims past and future.

 

And of course, in the same viewing where she sees seven towers around Lan, she also sees a baby in a cradle holding a sword, which is very obviously Lan.

 

Malkier is not coming back. It is dead, and only the DO brings things back from the dead.

[Kadere]

 

And of course, in the same viewing where she sees seven towers around Lan, she also sees a baby in a cradle holding a sword, which is very obviously Lan.

 

 

Or a possible son of Lan and Nynaeve.

[42Bonzo88]

    I also think that M&M will not come back as nations, but I hope that as the world goes on that enough history and information will be found concerning them that they won't be forgotten again. Especially Manethren

[Jonn]

I'll say one thing about Manetheren. Well, maybe a few things...

 

First of all, since when has Perrin ever taken a willing step towards resurrecting Manetheren? Never. The people wanted it, and it just happened. Since the beginning, Perrin has tried as hard as he can to suppress the talk of reconstituting the dead nation. Again and again, his will on the matter has failed to matter. People will simply do what they will. They believe in him AND Manetheren.

 

Next, think about what Faile is going to say to Perrin when she finds out about the deal he struck with the Seanchan. She's not going to be happy about it to say the least. It won't help at all if Perrin sticks to his whole piggy notion that he did it all for her. She'll really hate that, and I wouldn't blame her.

 

Also, Perrin has in his debt two queens, one of them oath sworn to him. He has the First of Mayene as an ally. He's married to a woman who is in direct line to take the throne of Saldea.

 

Face it, whether or not Perrin wants to resurrect a nation, he may simply have to rule one that has already been born around him. What does it matter if the center of it all is a region where Manetheren's power once stood? It does matter.

 

This is Perrin's storyline. He's the reluctant ruler.

Mat is the reluctant hero.

Rand is the reluctant savior.

 

The future of Manetheren is dependent on whether or not Perrin is going to be willing to finally accept that he is not only a leader, but a ruler of men.

 

Rand cannot do it all alone. Perrin and Mat have to play their parts.

 

Finally, I have a feeling that Seanchan will cease to exist as it has for the last thousand years. Semirhage's actions will have a lot to do with that as will Mat and Tuon. What good will Perrin's promise be when the nation he promised is on the brink of collapse?

[Luckers]

Well, firstly they don't believe in Manetheren, they believe in the pretty banner and the sense of pride that comes with the assosiation that they have a noble house. It's in part play-acting, in part nothing more than a little ego-boosting.

 

And unfortunately despite what you said, Perrin swore to give it up, and Perrin does not break his word--whatever happens to the Seanchan. There is nothing there for him to reluctantly accept leadership of--he's already accepted leadership. And I rather doubt the Seanchan are going to conveniently disapear after TG... for one, RJ was planning an outrigger involving them 10 years after TG, for another Tuon is more than the type to weather the upheavals coming.

 

Manetheren is dead and gone and won't be coming back.

[Tuon Rocks 123]

I still think that ... what was it? the bank of teh White Sea (Manethrendrelle) where Mat's gonna die the 3rd time in his life as Mat Cauthon. Also, I think that Mat is one of the hero's of the Horn, and this is a really crazy theory, but what would happen if somehow do to the time wierd in dream world, that mat was Gaidal Cain, though I strongly believe it's somehow Olver. I mean, come on, Olver follows the exact characteristics of the story between him and Birgitte

[RAND AL THOR]

I hope Mat doesnt turn out to be a horn hero. I have this viewpoint of him as a funny person and if RJ reveals any past life due to him being a hero of the horn, then I think the current and former personalities are going to clash and make it unconfortable for the reader.

 

And interesting point Kadere, I never considered that the baby in the cradle is actually Lan's son.

 

Olver. He is the weirdest character present. I can see no proper purpose for him and yet RJ continues to keep him with one of the main characters. He might be Gaidal, but I'll worried about the time issues because theoretically Gaidal should still be in a cradle somewhere. But if it isnt Gaidal then I cannot see any use for the boy.

[Majsju]

Olver is not Cain, and obviously neither is Mat. Cain is a toddler still dripping from both ends, and will have nothing whatsoever to do with TG.

 

As for what part Olver will play, keep in mind his obsession with the game based on the finns, and keep in mind Mat and Thom (01) are going to enter the Tower of Ghenjei...

 

As for the baby in Mins viewing being Lans son...Not a chance. The sword had a great significance for Lan, something it will not have if Nynaeve gets knocked up (and those chances are slim, given that Lan is one of the main characters most likely to die in AMOL)

[bjclinton]

To Maj's point, RJ has already stated in an interview that Olver is not Gaidal Cain. Period.

 

 

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

As for the baby in Mins viewing being Lans son...Not a chance. The sword had a great significance for Lan, something it will not have if Nynaeve gets knocked up (and those chances are slim, given that Lan is one of the main characters most likely to die in AMOL)

 

not sure if i'm missing a point...but i don't see any reason why nynaeve can't get 'knocked up' at ANY point before TG(i'm of the mindset that lan will die) and retrieve lan's sword for his son. 

[Jonn]

Well, firstly they don't believe in Manetheren, they believe in the pretty banner and the sense of pride that comes with the assosiation that they have a noble house. It's in part play-acting, in part nothing more than a little ego-boosting.

 

Sometimes that's all you need. A little pride and a symbol. Maybe a story that inspires you.

 

And unfortunately despite what you said, Perrin swore to give it up, and Perrin does not break his word--whatever happens to the Seanchan. There is nothing there for him to reluctantly accept leadership of--he's already accepted leadership. And I rather doubt the Seanchan are going to conveniently disapear after TG... for one, RJ was planning an outrigger involving them 10 years after TG, for another Tuon is more than the type to weather the upheavals coming.

 

Manetheren is dead and gone and won't be coming back.

 

What have we seen again and again? Every time Ban or someone brings out the red eagle, Perrin would dismiss it in disgust or tell them to put it away. Still, they would bring it out despite what he ordered.

 

If he's going to stand by what he promised the Seanchan, Perrin is going to finally have to flex his total authority amongst the Two Rivers people in order to control their desire to identify themselves as a distinct people.

 

In essence, either way he plays it, he's stuck in a position where he must rule these men, the region they come from and their actions.

 

Whether it's called Manetheren or not, the people he unites are going to identify themselves with him because of his leadership. The only way he can truly kill Manetheren is to kill the memory of the deeds they did under that banner. Like it or not, that's not an easy thing to do.

 

They defended the Two Rivers from trollocs and whitecloaks. They did battle at Dumai's Wells. They were the heart of the force that crushed the Shaido. They followed the wolfhead and the red eagle. They followed Perrin.

 

Perrin can make all of the promises he wants to the Seanchan, but it's his responsibility to  lead these people regardless of whether or not they are allowed to call themselves Manetheren.