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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
RAND AL THOR

Modification: What parts do you dislike in the WOT?

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I didn't read the whole thread so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before but I noticed on my complete re-read of the series recently that RJ has a tendency of repeating things we already know over and over again in each book.  I suppose those passages were there as reminders to his readers since the books took so long to come out but in reading the books back to back it is annoying.

 

I admit its not my favorite aspect of the books, but if you read virtually any multi-book series, especially one in which there's a lot of info to retain and characters to keep track of then authors always tend to repeat so as to either refresh the memories of returning readers or in the case of new fans who prefer to just pick up with out back reading (although god only knows why anyone would do this) they are brought up to date more or less just like that.

 

There are aspects of Faile and Perrin that bother me, but I agree the rescue was important. Besides showing a maybe not so great side of Perrin, it resolved the issue of Aram, Sevanna, Therava, Galina, and the Shaido, as well as freed up Berelain to now pursue Galad AND managed to bring Tam back into the fold (really missed him. Liked his character and there just wasn't enough of him). All of these should make for some very interesting reunions now. I think I'm most looking forward to the reunion between Tam and Rand.....don't know what'll happen but should definitely be interesting

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Guest Dreadlord

I would love it if Lan knew Tam, they sparred, and Tam got the better. Hes the only person that wouldn't annoy me for being better than Lan with the sword.

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dreadlord i love your opinions on the girls well in (except egwene i like her as amrylin)

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resolved the issue of Aram, Sevanna, Therava, Galina, and the Shaido

I wonder how the seanchan will gain... or lose from gaining nearly a whole clan of channelers. This could be bad ifg the seanchan suddenly have 400ish new damane... or more likely... they have 400 untrainable wise ones who end up controlling the sul'dam lol... i could just see the wise ones tearing off their collars because there such beasts lol

 

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it resolved the issue of Aram, Sevanna, Therava, Galina, and the Shaido,

 

I have thought several times that all these issues could have been resolved in a more interesting way. An author like RJ could certainly have done it better, I think. I was especially disppointed about Aram. He was practically Perrin's dog but turns on him over what a loony said. Very very unrealistic. I doubt anyone liked that at all (but on the whole I don't care about Aram at all).

 

I agree that RJ accomplished a lot with the Faile-kidnap arc. I just wish he had accomplished all that in a different way. :'(

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I was especially disppointed about Aram. He was practically Perrin's dog but turns on him over what a loony said. Very very unrealistic. I doubt anyone liked that at all (but on the whole I don't care about Aram at all).

 

 

It seemed good to me.  Aram was very unstable, and turned to Perrin after the massacre the Tinkers.  For a Tinker to take up the sword was unthinkable (remember Rand's journey back thru time at Rhuidian); he was shunned by his family, and took up a way of life totally opposite to his previous one.  It seemed to me that he never stopped looking for something new; he was ripe for the taking. 

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The First thing that comes is the extremly immature approach to all the relationship themes in these books.  No one seems to act their own age, and all the love/relationship sub-plots just seem to be forced.

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More a case of insecure and immature behavior in general, I think.  The only characters who seem to be adults are the ones we see the least and about whom we know the least.

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Everybody here who is complaining about the unrealistic approach to love in the books, I just wanna say that I would guess that RJ believed in "love at first sight" and "meant to be" and therefore, those things exists in Randland and thats why people keep falling in love with people they barely know...

 

No offense to you guys who think it's unrealistic, I'm just trying to look from RJ's perspective...

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Hell, most of the love in the books is more than just "meant to be". In the case of Rand and Mat its fate. Mat is told by the Finn's he will marry Tuon and he knows they can't lie. Min has a viewing of Rand with three women and that they'll love/share him and we know her visions are true. Plus for Rand to fall in love with em, I account it for the fact that he's the Dragon Reborn and they're possibly the only women who see and treat him as just Rand Al'Thor. Perrin and Faile wasn't some overnight love story either. He was annoyed with her for who knows how long before she finally gained his affections (AND Min had a viewing there of them as well). Lan and Nynaeve, well there's two people who would go for no one except each was unique in each other's eyes for the characteristics they exhibited: Lan being what a man should be in Nynaeve's eyes, as Nynaeve's tracking/stalking skills and being a "lionness" in Lan's eyes. So basically the love stories aren't so very far-fetched.

 

Havoc, the guys arent' teens. Just barely into their 20's. My only explanation for people not "acting their ages" is that in a society where so many live for hundreds of years, maybe your 20's aint all that old. Hell, Loial is NINETY and considered young. Also, I can assure you, as well as just about anyone else that most people in their 20's don't act with the maturity that people tend to expect. Neither do many people in their 30's or 40's. Takes a bit of life experience rather than just an accumulation of years alive I think and a certain type of upbringing to install that

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I am more or less satisfied with the relationships in the books. The only disappointing one was Loial's abrupt wedding. I expected a wedding among Ogier (who claim Humans are hasty) to be more than what actually happened in KOD.

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Everyone has basically mentioned all of the things that bug me except for one thing...and I understand the explanation(and feel it is really clever and believable, but still drives me crazy)

 

The idea of ta'veren as perfect deus ex machina. Anything, no matter how remote, can be just thrown right into the story and be blamed on ta'veren. "Hmm...I don't feel like building a reasonable explanation as to why blah blah happened, lets just make it so and call it ta'veren."

 

While we are being so negative though I'll throw in a plus. I have to say that last line of the Dumai's Wells plotline gave me effin goosebumps

"Kneel, or you shall be knelt..." uhhhhhh :o

yea... ;D

More AS need to be treated as such.

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Any book is going to have a large number of coincidences befalling the hero so that the plot can go on with the hero alive. :D

 

In other books the coincidences simply happen and can annoy the reader at times.

 

However, the taveren idea is absolutely marvellous. It allows RJ to explain the coincidences as taveren work. Mind u, it is not a trivial matter. RJ had to create the Wheel, the Pattern, Age Lace and all that before he could invest in taveren. Personally, I think it is a very good idea.

 

Remember that RJ could have had WAY more coincidences without violating any of of the rules in Randland. If taveren attract what they need then many more stuff could have happened. But RJ took the time to limit the taveren effect so that Rand doesnt just need to sit back and wait for TG to come to him. I'm very happy about that.

 

I might even go as far as to say that RJ did not misuse the ta'veren idea. It was truly one of his best ideas in WOT.

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Yeah, but aren't most of the good guys teenagers?

Gawyn, Rand, Perrin, Mat, Elayne, Egwene and Aviendha are all around 23 years old. I know that Egwene is a year younger than Rand, Perrin and Mat.

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Guest Dreadlord

I think its great that most of the main characters are so young. They start out from scratch if you know what I mean, it gave RJ way more room for development than with other characters, like Moiraine, Lan, Thom Merrilin, etc. While we see those characters develop some, it is nowhere near as dramatic or on anywere near as big a scale as with the younger mains.

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"Kneel, or you shall be knelt..." uhhhhhh :o

yea... ;D

More AS need to be treated as such.

NOOOOOO

Yes the AS have been a little lofty but they are still AS! I was SICK by the way the AS were getting more and more stomped one by EVERYONE! True its good to see em taken down a notch or two but the way the WF are/were treating them makes me.. grrrrrrRRRR, ahem angry... I just want Egwene to become the Amrylin Seat and bring the fury of the tower to all of those who disrespect them! Except Mat is exempt... when he does it its really funny, not to rude and they really did deserve it....

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Something I however hate in WoT is the hatred towards LTT. He saved the world! He was the only one who could stand up against the shadow!

 

Yes, the final attack had consequences, the taint and all, but without him the human race wouldn't exist anymore! But still, when people talk about him it's like he's the DO in human form. That's only because of the taint, and he can't really be blamed for what he did as an crazy person! I just wish people could think of all good he's done instead of the bad.

 

I admire LTT much more than I admire Rand or anyone else in the books, and I would love to see a sane LTT in Rands head someday.

 

Honestly I think LTT deserves better than hatred...

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With all of the propaganda of thousands of years of LTT, Kinslayer, its not surprising that he isn't the most popular hero.  He's held in much the same category as the Forsaken by the bulk of the populace.  It seems to be fear as much as hatred.  And judging by the way he rants in Rand's head, fear isn't such a bad idea.  The old LTT is gone; a madman remains.  That said, he's one of my favorite characters - right from the first prologue.

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yea! LTT is great.. hes my second ffavourite character (Mat is first) yea its annoying how everyone is like booo LTT u suck but its like hey guys... hes awesome so give him eh break... and i think its al ittle annoying how rand is alwasy like shut up LTT im not listening to you. And LTT has such good ideas! remember in (i think KoD or CoT) rand is like what to do with all the beggars in tear? and LTT is like "give them jobs" and starts ranting about this system that gets rid of beggars and uses them for helping... and rand is like SHUT IT LTT im busy ignoring your crazy wisdom and being silly.. rabble

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"Kneel, or you shall be knelt..." uhhhhhh :o

yea... ;D

More AS need to be treated as such.

NOOOOOO

Yes the AS have been a little lofty but they are still AS! I was SICK by the way the AS were getting more and more stomped one by EVERYONE! True its good to see em taken down a notch or two but the way the WF are/were treating them makes me.. grrrrrrRRRR, ahem angry... I just want Egwene to become the Amrylin Seat and bring the fury of the tower to all of those who disrespect them! Except Mat is exempt... when he does it its really funny, not to rude and they really did deserve it....

They always deserve it. ALWAYS.

 

Something I however hate in WoT is the hatred towards LTT. He saved the world! He was the only one who could stand up against the shadow!

 

Yes, the final attack had consequences, the taint and all, but without him the human race wouldn't exist anymore! But still, when people talk about him it's like he's the DO in human form. That's only because of the taint, and he can't really be blamed for what he did as an crazy person! I just wish people could think of all good he's done instead of the bad.

 

I admire LTT much more than I admire Rand or anyone else in the books, and I would love to see a sane LTT in Rands head someday.

 

Honestly I think LTT deserves better than hatred...

I wouldn't say i hated it. It was important to the story and Ishmael was spreading all that propaganda, so it was inevitable. It was more of "Stop hating him, he's awesome" to me. It makes it way more awesome when the people learn to accept the Dragon Reborn and realise it's all been lies, anyways.

 

yea! LTT is great.. hes my second ffavourite character (Mat is first) yea its annoying how everyone is like booo LTT u suck but its like hey guys... hes awesome so give him eh break... and i think its al ittle annoying how rand is alwasy like shut up LTT im not listening to you. And LTT has such good ideas! remember in (i think KoD or CoT) rand is like what to do with all the beggars in tear? and LTT is like "give them jobs" and starts ranting about this system that gets rid of beggars and uses them for helping... and rand is like SHUT IT LTT im busy ignoring your crazy wisdom and being silly.. rabble

Yeah, in Knife of Dreams, Lews Therin starts to try and work with Rand, but Rand doesn't know when he's crazy and trying to take advantage of a weakness or sane and helpful. Perhaps that's why he shut out his advice, or maybe he's just like "I can listen later".

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Perhaps as Rand goes more mad, LTT grows saner.  Or maybe it just seems so in comparison.

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