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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Annoying women....yes that means you


spigots or caudrens  

114 members have voted

  1. 1. spigots or caudrens

    • spigots
      24
    • caudrens
      23
    • pie spoon
      45
    • washer woman. shaped washer.
      28

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In the first half of the series, I'd say Egwene's the most annoying. Just the way she's constantly being childish towards Nyn. Later, she improves a great deal and Elayne becomes the most annoying.

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To give her due respect though, it'd be a pretty lame storyline if she was nice as pie... I think the bitchiness is kind of intended. Elayne annoys me most, although she does have her good points.

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trakand_01, that's pretty ironic. You hate Elayne the most yet your name is trakand_01. Hahaha, I hate Faile the most, for what she turns one of my favorite characters(Perrin) into. Maybe I shoud change my name to Zarine_101? ;)

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Ahhh yes, my favorite whipping boy.

 

It’s a tight race. But it has to be Elayne, not only is she irrationally adolescent, but she also makes far and away, the worst command decisions of the lot.

 

Egwene begins to redeem herself, with the loving application of the paddle. (!?!)

 

Nyn, was pretty cool – right at the very, very, very, very, last part of the very last book.

 

Evil women are, well, by definition evil.

 

Elaida was set up by the author.

 

But Elayne, dear, sweet, clueless, vapid, childish, self involved Elayne, has no excuses.

 

Faile, well she doesn’t annoy me so much as she makes me recoil in horror. This chick has serious mental issues, and, I’m sure most of you guys out there can spot the crazy stalker chick in her immediately.

 

As a group though, the most annoying women are the Windfinders.

 

I think Trakand 01, <i>should</i> posses Elayne. No one would miss the old personality.

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I can definatley see the crazy stalker chick in Faile. And I would know. I've got one, and i stay the hell away from her. I'm talkin kill other women crazy, kind of like Faile.

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Faile, because she is far and away the most selfish character in the books.  Everything she does is for self.  Even Berelain comes down off her throne to do some good.  The Light can fall at TG, as far as Faile is concerned, as long as she gets her way.

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Elayne isn't annoying until later on when she's pregnant. Egwene irritates me to no end at first, but gradually gets better. All said, Nynaeve drives me insane. The only time I liked her even remotely was at the end of the eleventh book (and not much there).

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I still Like Faile, and I think that all of the we hate Faile club really don't understand her very well at all. But thats just my opinion.

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Every women character kind of sucks in the books.  In some weird way, RJ never could bring himself to create a female character that was loveable.  Every woman character was a plotter, self interested, social/power climber, and a bitch.  On the other hand, every male character is kind of stupid and has no ambition.

 

For females, look at:

 

Egwene: first real female character introduction. Starts off ignorant as hell, ends up head of the Tower and finishing her education on how to manipulate people.  Super Power Freak!

 

Nynaeve: I, like some other folks, hated! hated! her at first.  After realizing she is my older sister in print, I came to except her.  Still, if I were Rand or Egwene, I would have burned her to a crisp by book 2.  Super Control Freak!!!

 

Elayne: Born into to it, and it never goes away. She never, ever, ever treats anyone outside of the circle of protaginists without disdain. Oh yeah, unless she has something to gain. Super Entitled Freak!

 

Min: Useless character with no point whatsoever. Still dont get why RJ put her in or didnt develop her.  She could have been ok.

 

Aviendha:  The worst of all worlds.  Angry, spiteful, proud, egotistical, self righteous, power hungry, and my worst nightmare.  Wow.

 

Moiraine: Steady and dependable. The best woman protagonist in the books.

 

Faile: Stalker, control freak, back stabber. She screws her husband over 3 times in the books and gets away with tears and sorry.  I dated her.  Another wow.

 

Rand: He runs the gammut from Mr. Vulnerable to Mr. Invincible.  With all his power, he is still a puss. If Mat or Perrin were the Dragon Reborn, the series would have been over by book 5.  Therefore, I am putting him under the female category.

 

So those are our main women.

 

The guys:

 

 

Mat: Called an asshole in every chapter he is in.  Not dependable. Ungrateful. Saves other main characters every 300 pages or so. Still called a little boy by the women (and Rand).  If only his spear had 2 points he could do a double.....

 

Perrin: Mr. Everyman. Dependable, loyal, hard working, persistant. That makes him a cow and is treated as such.

 

Lan: Oh how I hate how he turned out.  Book 1 - NINJA kick ass super character. Loads of potential.  By book 8 he is a sniveling shell of a man.

 

Logain: Not a real leading character, but should have been. The only guy who is true to himself throughout, and a second fiddle.

 

Oh well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Egwene: first real female character introduction. Starts off ignorant as hell, ends up head of the Tower and finishing her education on how to manipulate people.  Super Power Freak!

 

To be fair to Egwene, it's not her fault. She was raised in a matriarchal society - let's be honest, the Women's Circle ran things in Emond's field and Egwene's mother was one of the main ringleaders. Then she apprenticed to Nynaeve and soaked up some of her attitude, which is a perfectly natural thing to happen.

 

Nynaeve: I, like some other folks, hated! hated! her at first.  After realizing she is my older sister in print, I came to except her.  Still, if I were Rand or Egwene, I would have burned her to a crisp by book 2.  Super Control Freak!!!

 

Nynaeve isnt my favourite character either, but I think you have to understand what she's battling against. She looks around 5 or 10 years younger than she is, she held a position of authority and had to struggle to keep that authority against the Women's Circle, who put her out as a child every chance they got, then she found herself in love with Lan, up against Moiraine - a woman whom he was physically incapable of leaving. She had a channeling block, and saw the boys she had helped raise splitting off in every direction. The one thing she was fighting against (Aes Sedai) became her biggest dream.

 

Elayne: Born into to it, and it never goes away. She never, ever, ever treats anyone outside of the circle of protaginists without disdain. Oh yeah, unless she has something to gain. Super Entitled Freak!

 

Personally I would find it unbelievable should a woman raised in the way that Elayne has been raised, with the future ahead of her that she has, was 'normal'. Yes, she's pompous, she's full of her own self-worth and believes herself invinceable but she's grown up being told that a) being told that  she'll be queen one day b) the only sister with 2 older brothers and c) going around everywhere with a guard to protect her - no wonder she isnt aware what can happen to a vulnerable young woman in the 'real' world; she's never been exposed to it.

 

Min: Useless character with no point whatsoever. Still dont get why RJ put her in or didnt develop her.  She could have been ok.

 

Well I'm biased because I like Min. I think her purpose was to be by Rand's side, keeping the 'softer' side to his character. I know most of the times we see them together they're in bed or thinking about it but be honest, without her there he would be nothing but a man with a sword. She also serves to make us think. She sees things, and we think "I wonder what that could mean?". RJ gives us hints and warnings of things to come through Min's viewings.

 

Aviendha:  The worst of all worlds.  Angry, spiteful, proud, egotistical, self righteous, power hungry, and my worst nightmare.  Wow.

 

She's Aiel, it's their culture. I don’t think Aviendha is spiteful, or self-righteous but unlike so many other characters in the books, she knows her worth to the very last penny. She knows what she can do, she knows what she can't do as precisely as anyone ever could. She's afraid to do more than she knows she's capable of, and ashamed if she doesn’t do as MUCH as she's capable of. Aren't we all? If I slack off at work, I know that I've done it, I feel bad for not putting the full effort in. But when something new comes along that I havent attempted before, it makes me nervous.

 

Moiraine: Steady and dependable. The best woman protagonist in the books.

 

Yeah I liked Moiraine too, although she's not my favourite.

 

Faile: Stalker, control freak, back stabber. She screws her husband over 3 times in the books and gets away with tears and sorry.  I dated her.  Another wow.

 

Yup, all of those things, but how much of that is her fault, and how much is Perrin's fault? I know how far I can push my fella, and I know when he'll turn around and say 'that's enough'. Sometimes I overstep and he stops me. And vice versa. But Perrin lets her keep going and going and going. How many women wouldn’t take as much rope as he handed out? She's Saldean, and the daughter of the best Saldean General to boot. Queen's cousin. Spoilt brat. But that's what you get, I'm afraid.

 

Rand: He runs the gammut from Mr. Vulnerable to Mr. Invincible.  With all his power, he is still a puss. If Mat or Perrin were the Dragon Reborn, the series would have been over by book 5.  Therefore, I am putting him under the female category.

 

He has to though. T'old lad's got a lot on his plate, really! He was Mr Vulnerable to start with because he'd been plucked from his happy existence and told everything he believed was wrong, everything he didn’t believe was true and while you're at it, you're going to die a horrible and painful death in a matter of years. Oh, and you've got to save the world before that happens, or everyone else will die with you. Then he toughened up but he went too far - he got 'hard'. He needs to be 'strong' as Cadsuane puts it. I think it was entirely RJ's intention for Rand to get too hard, that's the whole point of Cadsuane. I don’t think Mat or Perrin could deal with things that Rand has done - Mat would hate the fact that he could channel, and Perrin would worry too much about what people thought of him.

 

 

Mat: Called an asshole in every chapter he is in.  Not dependable. Ungrateful. Saves other main characters every 300 pages or so. Still called a little boy by the women (and Rand).  If only his spear had 2 points he could do a double.....

 

Personally I think Mat is one of the most dependable characters in the entire book. He may say that he doesn’t want responsibility, he may run in the opposite direction when someone asks him to do something but you can guarantee by the time he's run to the end of the block he'll turn back on himself and help you. He cannot walk away knowing someone needs help. Siuan said he reminded her of her uncle, who died pulling children from a burning building - while there was one child left, he wouldn’t stop going back in. Aside from Rand, I think Mat will make the biggest sacrifices in the books, and none of them for his own good.

 

Perrin: Mr. Everyman. Dependable, loyal, hard working, persistant. That makes him a cow and is treated as such.

 

Perrin is dependable so long as it's Faile he's helping. Otherwise, he can be sidetracked by a flutter of her eyelids. I liked Perrin to start with, I liked him much more than Mat but that woman has ruined him.

 

Lan: Oh how I hate how he turned out.  Book 1 - NINJA kick ass super character. Loads of potential.  By book 8 he is a sniveling shell of a man.

 

Remember what Lan went through. His Aes Sedai seemingly died, his bond to her was snapped. We know that most Warders find a quick death avenging their Aes Sedai, and we know that Lan is less than a happy-go-lucky man. He went to Myrelle, and then to Nynaeve, where he has finally found his love. Have you ever read New Spring? It tells you a lot about Lan, about his personality and his background, it's very much worth a read. I think Lan will be the martyr of all martyrs in Book 12 - he'll be Bruce Willis in Armageddon and I'm hardly able to wait.

 

Logain: Not a real leading character, but should have been. The only guy who is true to himself throughout, and a second fiddle.

 

I agree, Logain is a fantastic character. I cannot wait for him to come into his own in book 12 and kill that cheating scum Taim. He's down to earth, he treats his AS as real women (especially Gabrelle) and I genuinely believe he will be one of Rand's most trustable allies.

 

Well, these are all personal opinions, and are open to debate but I love my characters, and I love the books.

 

I can't wait for book 12 so that all of our characters' personalities can seriously erupt onto the page. 

;D

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I have to agree that Rand turns into a total whiny baby. Thing is he’s not strong. His list proves it. When it came down to it, kill Lanfear or let evil win, he totally blows it, and can’t stop whining long enough to do what needs to be done. Frankly he needs a sharp slap upside the head – and I don’t mean someone telling him to cry <i>more</i>. He started out OK, then he just regressed to the mental age of a toddler.

 

Whatever he has to go through, he’s the hero of the whole shebang, and I for one would like to see his moaning finally cease. It’s just as frustrating as the whole rescue Faile epic.

 

Also just saying "Matriarchy" to explain away the more annoying aspects of the female characters is a little glib. Most of the countries aren’t matriarchies. Anyway an actual matriarchy would turn out as many competant women as not. Plus, look at the story, all of the main heroes are men. Mostly it’s the women making mistakes and the men have to rescue them. Then enter Jordan's need to introduce a "damsel in distress," a story arc that's blatantly paternalistic. If Jordan really wanted a world where women rule, why not have three taveren <i>women</i>. Egwene would (and I think should) have been an ideal candidate for at least one Taveren woman.

 

Personally, part of my frustration with them is that I wanted them, especially the Aes Sedai to be so much more, to be truly bad ass like the B.G. in the Dune books. But no, instead they are pretty much keystone cops of the fantasy genre. Neither clever, nor wise, nor formidable, not even adult; I think their flaws are a product of the way Jordan sees women, and for all of his lip service to a world where women “rule,” he certainly doesn’t paint them in a very positive light. They are neither competent nor resourceful for the most part, and pretty much run around Randland competing for the title of biggest tool.

 

Someone on here mentioned that Jordan came from South Carolina, and when I found that out, a lot of things that bother me started to make sense. The social archetype he’s using is suspiciously familiar to the one that produced Scarlet O’Hara; the pretty, vivacious, charmingly vain and selfish, Southern Belle, with a will of steel. Unfortunately that woman never existed, and quite frankly she’s an incredibly misogynistic stereotype to begin with. Enter the deal with the chivalrous men, right out of Gone with the Wind; same problem. I really don’t think that in a world where women really rule, either of these stereotypes are very believable.

 

That said, I think this issue wasn’t really a problem in the early books, which are much more balanced in terms of characterization. It’s only later that a lot of the women turn into caricatures.

 

Except Faile, If my GF wanted me to alternately yell at her (isn't that emotional abuse?) then be her slave, I’d hit the pavement running. Oh and with a restraining order.

 

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What Dbob said.

 

I'd also throw in the whole closet S&M thing with the switches and slippers and....  Both unnecessary and inappropriate.

 

Although, ( I believe it was Harriet that brought this up at Dragon Con ), it isn't really a South'run novel unless it's got dead mules in it.  Unless we want to start deanthropomorphizing the Forsaken, we haven't seen any dead mules that I can recall.

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Totally and completely do I Disagree with what Despair, Dbob, and Bob T Dwarf have said with their assessments of the characters. Instead, I find myself much, much, much more in agreement with trakand_01 :):):)

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I had to vote for Egwene, but Elayne is just as bad in my opinion.  On Egwene she is upcessed with making every female who has ever touched the one power bow and grovel before her.  She has no respect that Rand is carrying the wight of the world upon his shoulders ( and mat and Perrin have huge responsibilites that they constantly get no respect for).  Elayne has the same issure with the three boys as Egwene (except she happens to have an odd love/hate relationship with one of them) and she is arrogant, whining about her throne for a few books.  Despair I agree with you about Mat and Perrin, but I think Rand has a huge responsibility, and is slowly going mad ( as well as going blind, and getting his left hand blown off) I don't think any of us would be doing much better In Rand's situation.

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bearit, I almost voted the same as you, but Faile grates on me too much. Personally I think this poll should be Who is the least annoying woman. That would be a much easier pick for me.

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The only annoying thing about Moiraine is that Jordan took her out of action. Other than that, she’s one of my favorite characters; Amys is pretty high up on the list. Also Berelain, who – unlike Elaine, knew how to subordinate the more trivial side of her nature in order to take care of the wellbeing of her nation; she’s one of the few effective rulers who are women. Plus she kicked Faile’s butt, gotta love her for that.

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Also just saying "Matriarchy" to explain away the more annoying aspects of the female characters is a little glib. Most of the countries aren’t matriarchies. Anyway an actual matriarchy would turn out as many competant women as not. Plus, look at the story, all of the main heroes are men. Mostly it’s the women making mistakes and the men have to rescue them. Then enter Jordan's need to introduce a "damsel in distress," a story arc that's blatantly paternalistic. If Jordan really wanted a world where women rule, why not have three taveren <i>women</i>. Egwene would (and I think should) have been an ideal candidate for at least one Taveren woman.

 

Personally, part of my frustration with them is that I wanted them, especially the Aes Sedai to be so much more, to be truly bad ass like the B.G. in the Dune books. But no, instead they are pretty much keystone cops of the fantasy genre. Neither clever, nor wise, nor formidable, not even adult; I think their flaws are a product of the way Jordan sees women, and for all of his lip service to a world where women “rule,” he certainly doesn’t paint them in a very positive light. They are neither competent nor resourceful for the most part, and pretty much run around Randland competing for the title of biggest tool.

 

I think it was most likely that he brought in the women to a) keep the men interested (that obviously backfired somewhat) and b) balance out the male-dominated plot, as you stated. Mat / Perrin / Rand, all men. For women, that'd get a little annoying after a while, if the only women in the series were their love-interest. This can be seen in many other series, for example David Edding's Belgariad; if Ce'Nedra and Polgara didnt exist, we'd have nothing but Garion and Belgariad.

 

Someone on here mentioned that Jordan came from South Carolina, and when I found that out, a lot of things that bother me started to make sense. The social archetype he’s using is suspiciously familiar to the one that produced Scarlet O’Hara; the pretty, vivacious, charmingly vain and selfish, Southern Belle, with a will of steel. Unfortunately that woman never existed, and quite frankly she’s an incredibly misogynistic stereotype to begin with. Enter the deal with the chivalrous men, right out of Gone with the Wind; same problem. I really don’t think that in a world where women really rule, either of these stereotypes are very believable.

 

I think that was me again, he's from Charleston, SC. Have you ever been? It's beautiful - a real surprise around every corner (literally, from spice-markets to Gucci within 100m). I like to think the books are his Charleston.

 

That said, I think this issue wasn’t really a problem in the early books, which are much more balanced in terms of characterization. It’s only later that a lot of the women turn into caricatures.

 

I quite agree, i think around book 5 things start to change.

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Definitely the most annoying character is Ely. But coming close on her tail is Eggi. For the record although I may be the only one who dislikes Toun and She definitely would come 3rd. (I mean what the heck is up with that superstition thing -- it is soooo frek'in annoying.)

What this book needs is a couple of good strong Realistic female protagonists, Like Mori…….. before she was offed. RD was just incapable of making a normal female.  Even Mori - in NS she was made to look like an incapable 3 year old!! I will consider BS’s writing of AMOL a success if he can truly develop some of these women………… oh and if Rand is offed (oooh I would love that (evil cackle))

 

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