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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Rand and Logain


trakand_01
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I'm on book 9, and we've learnt that Logain has joined the Asha'Man, and is quickly becoming the polar opposite of Taim in the fact of Toveine mentions two 'camps' in her POV; Logain, and Taim. I find this pretty understandable, men in awe of Taim would also be in awe of Logain, especially if it was known that he was gentled and healed, and is still a considerable channeller, he is likely to be something of a beacon for them, I also believe he's has a considerable charisma.

 

So far Rand has no idea that Logain is in the Black Tower, as far as we are told, but he is beginning to understand that Taim is not his best ally. He tells Elayne, Aviendha and Nynaeve that the only three Asha'Man he thinks they can trust are Flinn, Narishma and Hopwil. I dont know where Flinn and Narishma went after the attack on the Sun Palace (he told them to keep out of the way while he was hunting for Dashiva et al) but we learn that Hopwil (or at least 'Eben') is with Cadsuane in the Sun Palace, so I assume Narishma and Flinn are too.

 

I presume that this has happened already, by book 11 but when does Rand learn that Logain is in the BT, opposing Taim, and what is his reaction to this? Nynaeve and Egwene have a good relationship, (as good as it can be expected to be) with Logain - indeed Nynaeve gave him back his channeling life and Egwene gave him back his freedom) and Elayne is no stranger to him either. Min also is familiar with him, having travelled from Tar Valon to Salidar with him. But Rand has never met him, only seen him transported when he fell into Elayne's garden.

 

Does Rand trust him on the word of Nynaeve, Elayne and Min, or does he harbour doubts because of Taim's treachery?

 

I assume (and I know that assumptions are dangerous in these books) that Logain will be a great ally for Rand, will help him, possibly teach him some, and be added to the list of Narishma, Flinn and Hopwill, but when, and how?

 

Do any of the prophecies mention Logain?

 

Logain and Rand have some similarities between them i've noticed; they are obviously both channellers, they were both captured by the tower, albeit with different endings, they are both bonded to two Aes Sedai (if you count Elayne as full AS) albeit Rand is bonded to Min and Aviendha also, and they are both edging around the other side of the table from Taim. They both trust Nynaeve and Egwene.

 

what are your thoughts on Logain, and what happens when they meet? If the answer is RAFO, at least can you advise me when they meet? Anticipation is half the excitement!  ;D

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Guest The Thin Inn Keeper

@ Trakand.

 

If I remember, you're a big Logain fan. I think you'll look forward to his tole over the next few books.

 

Without spoilers --

He's Taim's counterpoint when all's said and done. He plays a role in the BT's meeting with the WT and averts a potentially nasty situation in the process.

 

As for prophecies, there's only Min's viewing of glory to come. What that is, I haven't a clue.

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I've just read the wikipedia entry for Logain, and it says that he was a minor noble in Ghealdan, until he proclaimed himself Dragon and was stripped of his title and lands. It also says that Min views him coming to great glory, and Egwene has seen him (probably in a Dream?) stepping over Rand's corpse and taking a throne, laughing manically.

 

It doesn’t say that he kills Rand, just that he steps over his corpse. I wonder (this may already be the general consensus, sorry!) if he is privy to the Rand / Moridin switch, and that is why Rand's corpse is there, because Rand is now in Moridin's body, and if he takes the Ghealdanin throne, eventually? Or maybe a 'new' throne that Rand creates, later on? I have often wondered if joining 'the south and west' and 'the north and east' will result in a merging of the old nations, and the birth of a new one.

 

It says that Egwene saw Rand's corpse falling into leaves, I took this to mean that he… crumbles, and the body becomes leaves. Maybe the Creator took him back?

 

Does this hold any water as a theory?

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Guest Dreadlord

About Logain stepping over Rands body, I have a theory for this.

 

So, early in book 12 Rand sends Logain to the Black Tower to asses the situation of Taim and his followers. As soon as Logain gets there he sees Rand, who acts abit too pally-pally with Taim for Logains liking, and Logain also sees that Rand has his hand back. Seeing Rands surprise at seeing Logain, Logain asks him "Hows the hand, Boss?" Rand looks at his hands and back at Logain as if he didnt know what he was asking for. Logain clicks on that it wasnt Rand, it turns out to be Demandred, Logain kills Demandred, Taim flees, and Logain earns his bluey-gold halo.

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Guest The Thin Inn Keeper

About Logain stepping over Rands body, I have a theory for this.

 

Hmmmm... I like it.

 

As for the earlier mention of his manical laughter, it's a tough one. He's not overly insane, at least I can't recall him being so. So ... there's got to be another reason for his manical laughter. Things he has seen/done? Things he thinks? Relishing power?

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Here's the exact quote.

 

Logain, laughing, stepped across something on the ground and mounted a black stone; when she looked down, she thought it was Rand's body he had stepped over, laid out on a funeral bier with his hands crossed at his breast, but when she touched his face, it broke apart like a paper puppet.

 

To me this seems to indicate that the Rand in the prophecy is not actually dead (yeah yeah, I know. Luckers spouting his bodyswap theory again). But no, seriously irrespective of that i feel this is metaphorical--in the face of Rand's supposed death (long absence, whatever) Logain steps forward to take control of the Black Tower--note the mention of the black stone, which sounds an awful lot like the speaking stone of the Black Tower.

 

Logain's glory to come, to my mind, is to be the leader who establishes the Black Tower within society as more than a temporary weapon for Tarmon Gai'don.

 

 

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I like the idea of him killing a dupe-rand. The face cracking like paper when she touches it like a "paper puppet" could imply fakery and possibly support this, although I suppose we shall just have to wait and see.

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I'll be pretty disappointed if the body swap theory becomes more than theory.  How does Rand die and live again if he swaps bodies with Moridin.  Are his three babes supposed to say "hey, great new body you got there, handsome."  and proceed as normal.

 

Although, knowing the DO can transmigrate, body swapping does fit with the story.

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I'll be pretty disappointed if the body swap theory becomes more than theory.  How does Rand die and live again if he swaps bodies with Moridin.  Are his three babes supposed to say "hey, great new body you got there, handsome."  and proceed as normal.

 

I did address this in the theory. Firstly i would point out that it is not 'dies and lives again' that is a mat prophecy. Rand is prophesized to be one who is 'dead, yet lives'. In this world 'death' is specifically related to the death of the body. All the recycled Forsaken refer to their deaths. In Rand's case, he and Alivia will jointly kill Moridin in Rand's body. Thus he will die, yet still be alive at the same time. This prophecy was actually one that help me round out the bodyswap--the requirement that he die and live at the same time, rather then dying and returning to life, to my mind ruled out most other options--even balefire, though i could live with that interpretation if it occured.

 

And I've no doubt there will be an adjustment period with the ladies, but if they can abide having sister wives, they'll deal with this,

 

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