Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Will Rand get Tar Valon?


Vassili
 Share

Recommended Posts

Im tired and its late, I probably shouldn't be advancing a well though out theory, this way, but I figure I can add more later. I've long thought that Rand should become Amyrlin, and this would be a neat wrap up to the Egwene/Elaida and BT/WT conflicts. LTT was Amyrlin (or close to it) in the AoL, the prophecies speak of the Tower kneeling to him, and his symbol literally means he stands for a united male/female Aes Sedai front. That binging said, he avoids the Tower, distrusts female Aes Sedai, and tells the Ash'aman he wants no war with them. Maybe he is relying on Egwene to mediate a temporary alliance for him to fight TG, but she openly wants him to kneel to her, and opposes all that he has done in gathering the few Aes Sedai he has around him. At the same time, hes not backing down, and in my opinion RJ gives his actions at Dumai's Wells a certain moral justification in the way he ends the book. Even with Saidin clean, the few Aes Sedai who believe it are already looking for a way to keep their long standing supremacy. The BT and WT seem destined to end up in a serious conflict in the last book of the series.

 

I think what may happen is the Seanchan will conquer Tar Valon. We know they are laying the plans for taking the city. I doubt they will move unless they are certain of victory, and judging by their military prowess they will likely be correct. Elaida's tower is weak, very weak, and ripe for invasion. Egwene's Aes Sedai occupy a stratigic location impossible to defend for a Seanchan attack. Consider, they have no walls, infrastructure, or supplies to face an attack like the one the Seanchan will bring. My guess, those who are not leashed, will flee across the World. With the WT in Seanchan hands, Egwene's dream of a Seanchan assualt will come true. Who, then, remains in the World powerful enough to rescue Tar Valon? Only Rand. He travels in with his armies and hundreds of Ash'aman and liberates them. The freed Aes Sedai will likely have little coice but to follow him. With The Aes Sedai behind him, he can unite the World without brute force, but rather the Aes Sedais' political might.

 

Of course this could be completely wrong. But there is one important point here: will Egwene unite the WT and subjugate Rand and his Ash'aman? Or will Rand take Tar Valon by force? Who is more likely to unite Aes Sedai and Ash'aman on equal terms, Egwene or Rand? Will this union even take place? Or, and heres an interesting thought, maybe Rand WILL kneel to the Crystal Throne, together they will win TG, and afterwards all channelers will be enslaved. Nothing says that victory at TG means "happy happy joy joy". Look what happened last time inorder for the shadow to be defeated: the world was destroyed and all male Aes Sedai were lost. The a'dam could be the "taint" of the next Age.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest The Thin Inn Keeper

I hope that Rand doesn't get the Tower.

 

I think it'd make the entire storyline revolving around Egwene becoming the Am. Seat totally redundant.

 

I'd agree that the White and Black are going to clash at some point, but that's one thing I'm looking forward to seeing. It seems, to me at least, to be fundamental to the storyline.

 

We don't know that the Seanch. will get their hands on the Tower. A couple of points on this:

1. Mat is the Prince of the Ravens - If he has the power, I'd think he'd stop anything from happening / save the day.

2. You say that Egwene's lot are screwed if they end up fighting. How so? They have a substantial conventional force, one of the Great Captains and possibly the largest collection of channelers in the world... They might be vulnurable in conventional terms... but that fight is going to be unconventional to say the least.

 

I actually think that the Seanch. attack will be the catalyst to force the two sides (of the W.T.) to kiss and make up. ... Plus, I have a lovely image of some Seanchan throwing Elaida out of the window of her apartment.

 

I'd like to see the Tower remain independent and be united with the Black after T.G., maybe in an epilogue. I just don't like the idea of the White Tower being under anyone else's control. Whatever their differences, I think Egwene and Rand can work it out between them. As for who would/could unite the Towers - I think it'll be Egwene (as Amry. after the battle with the Seanc) and Logain. Not sure why I think Logain, only that he's a powerful (and I mean in terms of personality and channeling) man, is close to Rand and has been involved with the W.T. on so many levels for so long.

 

Looking at your last para:

 

I don't think Rand will ever try to take the tower, nor do I think that Egwene will try to subjugate the Black. I don't believe that either wants or needs to start that conflict.

 

I can't agree with the Seanch. winning any fight with the Tower and therefore Rand taking control, as you've outlined, won't happen in my opinion.

 

As for Rand and the Seanch. enslaving all channelers ... I think it's ludicrous. Rand, and possibly Tuon, is/are channelers. 2 of Rands women are channelers. No, I don't see him signing them all up for shiny new A'dams.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Prophecies seem to suggest that the Aes Sedai and the Asahaman will remain distinct groups after TG.  "The Guardians will balance the Servants."  If Rand were really going to lump all those chanellers into one group, why differentiate between the two?  If what you're suggesting were to happen, I would imagine the prophecies reading more like "The other half regained, the Servants restored" in allusion to "Aes Sedai (Servant of All)" returning to its Age of Legends meaning.

 

Aside from that, I agree with Mr. Inn Keeper.  If Rand gains the Tower unexpectedly in this last book, why did we have to hear all about the Tower rebellion for the last...7(6?)...books?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, the only reason I though Rand might "take" the tower is that, in a way, he is an Aes Sedai, not apart from them. It wouldn't be about dominating the tower, but uniting it... Egwene and Elaida want to "unite" Aes Sedai kind, but knowlingly or unknowingly they are leaving half of them out.

 

As far as the Seanchan, I didn't quite mean that Rand would hand over all channelers on a leash for Toun. Its not so much that he will "obey" them, but that he could make a peace agreement with them untill after TG that does not protect the WT. After TG the Seanchan could seize control. Rand may not even be alive at this point to stop them. It just seems to me that RJ stressed symetry in the novel, and there is no symetry in the AoL ending in heartbreak and the Taint, but this age ends in complete victory and resolution. There must be a price to defeating the DO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am almost completely positive that Rand will not become anything like an Amrylin only because of one fortelling.

 

ACoS,Prologue - "The White Tower will be whole again, except for remnants cast out and scorned, whole and stronger than ever. Rand al'Thor will face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger. The Black Tower will be rent in blood and fire, and sisters will walk its grounds. This I Foretell." - Elaida

 

I suppose that this does leave room for him to become a male Amyrlin, but I really doubt that.

 

I just see the whole Seachan thing as follows. They attack, Egwene pushes them out with the possibility of Rand's assistance. She becomes Amrylin, and so on and so forth.

 

The one thing that I do firmly believe is that Elaida will either die or be collared during the attack.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the seanchan will attack the tower, not the city, Tar Valon is too big to be taken in a surprise attack, especially with a potentially hostile army camped ouside. The raid may take perrins idea and try spiking the towers water supply with forkroot.

 

rand wont have the tower, when hes won TG, hell be happy to fade into obscurity to live the rest of his life with his family. i think logain will be m'hael when the BT and WT unite.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest The Thin Inn Keeper

Well, the only reason I though Rand might "take" the tower is that, in a way, he is an Aes Sedai, not apart from them. It wouldn't be about dominating the tower, but uniting it... Egwene and Elaida want to "unite" Aes Sedai kind, but knowlingly or unknowingly they are leaving half of them out.

 

I assumed you meant using force because you used words like dominate and take which convey a sense of, if not violence, then certainly force in this context.

 

As for the Seanch., we know that one of RJs outriggers was going to be about Tuon and Mat taking on the Seanch. in Seanch. itself. I think they'll have too much going on for RJ to have slipped domination of all channelers in there as well. Added to that, I don't think that Mat would let the bald midget get away with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

we know that one of RJs outriggers was going to be about Tuon and Mat taking on the Seanch. in Seanch. itself.

 

I have seen this mentioned several times lately, and I would love to see what quote you people have found.

What RJ said about this in his blog is that he had a planned outrigger about Mat and Tuon ten years after TG. Nothing about what they where supposed to do in that novel.

 

As for Rand "getting" Tar Valon, sort of, yes. In the sense that once Egwene have kicked out Elaida, and the Seanchan attack havs been dealt with, Egwene will make the WT allied with Rand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest The Thin Inn Keeper

we know that one of RJs outriggers was going to be about Tuon and Mat taking on the Seanch. in Seanch. itself.

 

I have seen this mentioned several times lately, and I would love to see what quote you people have found.

 

Right ... Like you, I've seen numerous times. Given that I have never seen it debunked, I have assumed, like many I'd imagine, that it was a fact. I stand corrected.

 

Are you aware that refering to people as "you people" can be construed as being pretty rude?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is such a small idea so I don't know why I bother posting about it - but at the dinner between Egwene and Elaida maybe the Seanchan do their subtle and sneaky attack so the two Amyrlins don't notice it, but because of the attack the forkroot is delayed so Egwene can channel her full amount again. Then when the Seanchan reach them Egwene will slap them down while Elaida is easily captured.

 

I just thought that will be how Egwene and Elaida aren't both captured - Egwene needs to be free to control the WT and as she is weak at the moment it would be weird if she wasn't captured while Elaida was.

 

On the main topic, I really doubt Rand will turn up at all. Egwene will take control of the Aes Sedai solidly while fighting the Seanchan then Mat will turn up with the Band and halt the attack.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is such a small idea so I don't know why I bother posting about it - but at the dinner between Egwene and Elaida maybe the Seanchan do their subtle and sneaky attack so the two Amyrlins don't notice it, but because of the attack the forkroot is delayed so Egwene can channel her full amount again. Then when the Seanchan reach them Egwene will slap them down while Elaida is easily captured.

 

I just thought that will be how Egwene and Elaida aren't both captured - Egwene needs to be free to control the WT and as she is weak at the moment it would be weird if she wasn't captured while Elaida was.

 

 

Given that Egwene has a history with the Seanchan - she has already been damane and escaped, could this have any bearing? I am on book 9 so my experience of the Seanchan so far is limited, but i do remember that it is discovered the sul'dam have the spark.. or is it that they are learners - they could LEARN to channel if they wanted.

 

Perhaps Egwene becomes Sul'dam-ish to Elaida.

 

Pure speculation and I could have the complete wrong end of the stick!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is such a small idea so I don't know why I bother posting about it - but at the dinner between Egwene and Elaida maybe the Seanchan do their subtle and sneaky attack so the two Amyrlins don't notice it, but because of the attack the forkroot is delayed so Egwene can channel her full amount again. Then when the Seanchan reach them Egwene will slap them down while Elaida is easily captured.

 

I just thought that will be how Egwene and Elaida aren't both captured - Egwene needs to be free to control the WT and as she is weak at the moment it would be weird if she wasn't captured while Elaida was.

 

On the main topic, I really doubt Rand will turn up at all. Egwene will take control of the Aes Sedai solidly while fighting the Seanchan then Mat will turn up with the Band and halt the attack.

 

Well, there is the dream Egwene had about a Seanchan woman helping her, which seems more likely as the opportunity for Egwene to have the forkroot effect wear off. If the Seanchan attacked during the infamous dinner, there would be people running immidiatly to alert Elaida.

 

Not too sure about Mat showing up with the Band. The attack will most likely come quite early in AMOL, and Mat seems aimed at going to rescue moiraine now that the Tuon situation has been dealt with.

Besides, Elaidas army and the rebel camp has more than enough forces between them to handle pretty much anything the Seanchan can throw against them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

    The quote by Eladia as a foretelling, I believe, has one major flaw. Eladia's foretelling of Andor being crucial to the end (sorry, I can't remember the exact foretelling if someone knows it please confirm) was not Elayne like Eladia thought, but Tigraine, before Morgase even comes to power.

 

    I really don't have a problem with any of the theories concerning the BT, WT, Senchean, I just hope its good!!! And Mat's Band is involved somehow. Something about Mat and a whole bunch of Aes Sedai not being able to touch him with the power is just too much!!!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Haha, perhaps at TG he'll end up providing a body shield for the good AS to stand behind whilst they fire on the BA. The BA could be firing and attacking and he just stands there. Nonchalantly, of course.

 

Or he'll go into the lion's den and kill the BA sisters, knowing they can't touch him with the power. After all, I can't see Rand OR Perrin doing it, and Mat has already killed Melindhra, and effectively Tylin, and no-one knows how many others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...