Whitecloaks

[Guest leebarr]

When Gelard went to face the Lord Captain commander three men went with him because they believed the LCC beat raped and killed Morgase. when the three who went with Gerlard and the rest of the whitecloaks find out Morgase is still alive will Gelard still remaib the new Lord Captain commander 0r will they turn thier back on him

[Kadere]

Galad would still remain the Lord Captain Commander as Eamon was in fact guilty of the rape, just not the murder. The trail by combat was perfectly legit and accepted by Eamon, and Eamon lost without any cheating or tricks by Galad. The only Whitecloaks who would turn their back on him, already did and left with the leader of the Questioners. Plus Galad has already begun a great shift within the Children of the Light and now plans to have them join with and defend the Aes Sedai, along with Perrin's forces.

[Guest cw]

Don't you just love that whole concept.  Even when proof of his innocent becomes apparent, he is still officially guilty because saying otherwise would be going against the will of the Creator.

 

Valda was not even guilty of rape by the way.  Morgase's PoV makes it clear that she went to his bed of her own choice, thinking she could use her charms against him.

[Kadere]

Consent may be absent due to duress arising from the use, or threat, of overwhelming force or violence, or because the subject's capacity to give consent is negated some way: such as developmental disability, intoxication or being underage. In some cases, coercion might also be used to negate consent.

 

Coercion and the threat of violence against Galad were used by Asunawa and Valda. That makes it rape.

[algspkr]

Consent may be absent due to duress arising from the use, or threat, of overwhelming force or violence, or because the subject's capacity to give consent is negated some way: such as developmental disability, intoxication or being underage. In some cases, coercion might also be used to negate consent.

 

Coercion and the threat of violence against Galad were used by Asunawa and Valda. That makes it rape.

It sounded like Asunawa tortured her as well.

[DuDZiK]

When Gelard went to face the Lord Captain commander three men went with him because they believed the LCC beat raped and killed Morgase. when the three who went with Gerlard and the rest of the whitecloaks find out Morgase is still alive will Gelard still remaib the new Lord Captain commander 0r will they turn thier back on him

 

I think the whitecloaks that chose to follow Galad disliked Valda for more than the rape thing, like Valda's agreement with the Seanchan after many of them who fought against them were being used for slave labor.

[elmis]

Not really wanting to discuss the semantics of rape, but Morgases POV makes it clear that she said yes to Valda. Didn't get the sense that she was raped (from her), but rather she did what she had to do to protect her "people" and get them away from the situation, and that she was shameful of the consent.

[Ahaz Flagg]

Not really wanting to discuss the semantics of rape, but Morgases POV makes it clear that she said yes to Valda. Didn't get the sense that she was raped (from her), but rather she did what she had to do to protect her "people" and get them away from the situation, and that she was shameful of the consent.

 

Than why does she feel dirty?

[elmis]

Because she slept with a man she really doesn't like? Not the first time something like that has happened in fiction or reality, without it being rape. Anyway, I prefer to discuss cheerier topics, so I'm out from this one.

[Kadere]

The threat of violence and the use of coercion mean that her "consent" doesn't count. Yes, she said "yes," after Asunawa and Valda coerced her. If you told a person they must have sex with you or very bad things would happen to members of their families, and/or told them that then you would give them back their throne, it would still constitute rape.

[cheyjade]

I can't find my book at the moment, but didn't Galad charge Valda with 'abuse against a female relation' or something worded like that?  Regardless of whether Valda technically raped Morgase, he is guilty of abuse. Semantics, but...

 

From http://www.dictionary.com

 

1. to use wrongly or improperly; misuse: to abuse one's authority. 

2. to treat in a harmful, injurious, or offensive way

4. to commit sexual assault upon. 

6. wrong or improper use; misuse: the abuse of privileges.

8. bad or improper treatment; maltreatment 

9. a corrupt or improper practice or custom 

10. rape or sexual assault. 

 

Coercion and the threat of violence against Galad were used by Asunawa and Valda. That makes it rape.

 

It sounded like Asunawa tortured her as well.

 

IIRC, he tortured her in specific ways so as not to leave a mark. I'd bet you can torture a prim, prudish woman (Morgase is described as such) very effectivly with sex. And besides, would Morgase admit to it in front of Lini and Tallanvor? They'd both get themselves killed within 5 minutes trying to avenge her.

[Guest cw]

Not really wanting to discuss the semantics of rape, but Morgases POV makes it clear that she said yes to Valda. Didn't get the sense that she was raped (from her), but rather she did what she had to do to protect her "people" and get them away from the situation, and that she was shameful of the consent.

 

Than why does she feel dirty?

 

As also indicated in her PoV, Valda likes things a lot kinkier than Morgase does.  In addition, after it happened, she realized there was no chance of swaying Valda be sleeping with him.

 

Their was no threat of violence if she didn't bed Valda.  Morgase perceived a threat of violence if she didn't submit to Valda and Asunawa with regards to her treaty with Andor.  Bedding him was her attempt to sway Valda over to her side somewhat.  She figured she could get Valda to have some feelings for her.  She didn't count on them being nothing but contempt for her.

[Kadere]

Asunawa left bruises on her body after he beat her and made her sleep with Valda. It was rape. Then she thinks she should have let Asunawa beat her more rather then having slept with Valda. Valda was using his position and his power to make Morgase submit. It was rape.

[wvlr]

Asunawa left bruises on her body after he beat her and made her sleep with Valda. It was rape. Then she thinks she should have let Asunawa beat her more rather then having slept with Valda. Valda was using his position and his power to make Morgase submit. It was rape.

 

Yes it was.

[airminxx]

Definitely rape.

[Guest leebarr]

all of your point of views are good but more to what i was getting at was after the whitecloaks find out Morgase is alive will they still follow Galrad as the Lord captain commander under some what fasle pertence. Morgase not being dead as thought

[wvlr]

all of your point of views are good but more to what i was getting at was after the whitecloaks find out Morgase is alive will they still follow Galrad as the Lord captain commander under some what fasle pertence. Morgase not being dead as thought

 

Well since Valada is completely dead and thereby "Guilty under the Light" - I do not think that it will be an issue.    Besides, as stated above,  the group of Whitecloaks that he is with all seem to share all his views about the Seanchan and the need to work with AS in the fast approaching TG.  With the Seanchan now after them I do not see how they could turn back - unless they wanted to go to the slave pits as well.    Seanchan do not take kindly on those who turn against them.    With luck he will run into Perrin soon and Perrin will help him "break out" the Whitecloaks held captive.  Perrin still has that Surgoth letter I think and if he used it quickly (before word gets out that she is now a traitor) he might be able to pull off a quick release.

 

But even if not - the Whitecloaks that are with Galad really have no other choice.    No one else with them seem to be "top leader" material and they can't go back now.