Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Defeating the Gholam


Recommended Posts

Since the Gholam melts weaves, there might be a risk that if it touches the weave creating the deathgate (or regular gateway for that matter), the entire thing will simply collapse.

 

The thing is, the way deathgates are described as working, the Gholam wouldn't be touching the weave.  Again, we have the instances with Mat and Cadsuane going through gateways without any problems ... and their ter'angreal have a basically identical effect on weaves.  With deathgates, its not the actual weave that kills ... its a side effect of Shadowapawn going through a gateway.

 

The problem, of course, would be getting the Gholam to line up for the gateway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Since the Gholam melts weaves, there might be a risk that if it touches the weave creating the deathgate (or regular gateway for that matter), the entire thing will simply collapse.

 

The thing is, the way deathgates are described as working, the Gholam wouldn't be touching the weave.  Again, we have the instances with Mat and Cadsuane going through gateways without any problems ... and their ter'angreal have a basically identical effect on weaves.  With deathgates, its not the actual weave that kills ... its a side effect of Shadowapawn going through a gateway.

 

The problem, of course, would be getting the Gholam to line up for the gateway.

 

I think you misunderstood. What I mean is, what would happen if the Gholam physically touched the actual weave? This is something neither Mat nor Cads would ever try, since both have seen the effects of an opening gateway, how razorsharp the edges are.

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 ideas come to mind:

 

1. Mashadar?

2. Shadar Logoth Dagger?

3. Similar to what someone said above, surround the Gholam in an enclosed rock formation and drop him in the deepest part of the Aryth Ocean

 

Any problems there?

Link to post
Share on other sites

For Maj ...

 

I'm not sure what the status of the actual weave is, once the gateway is formed ... so I have no idea.  If the gholam did touch the actual weave, it would probably disappear ... but where, exactly, is the weave, in a physical sense?  I certainly don't know ... is it along the edges of the gateway?  Behind it?  Somewhere else?  I can't recall a description that includes that information ... so the problem remains lining the Gholam up.

 

For bj clinton ...

 

Mashadar is gone, and so, no longer an option.

 

I have no idea what the Shadar Logoth dagger would do, but it has as much chance as anything to kill it.

 

Surrounding it with rock would probably work fine, as long as you were careful not to touch it with the flows.  You'd have to be very fast, though.

Link to post
Share on other sites

He can not be killed with swords. When Mat fights him in Ebo Dar he sticks his dagger in him and the Gholam just laught and pulled it back out. What would help is this:

 

I always thought that Rand, if he's attacked by one, should do to him what Rand did to himself to protect himself from the attack the Asha'man launched at him in Cairhien, when he surrounded himself with a layer of rock or something. It was completely sealed; and wouldn't even let air in so he couldn't keep it around him long, but doing that to a gholam should contain it nicely, and then you can bury the thing a few miles under ground and no more gholan to worry about.

 

I was thinking about this too. Seems pretty easy to me. But do Gholams need air? That's the question. Just keep him away from blood for a long time and he dies, I think.

 

I meant more that if the thing is sealed so tight that no air gets in, then it wouldn't have any hole to squeeze through.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not sure what the status of the actual weave is, once the gateway is formed ... so I have no idea.  If the gholam did touch the actual weave, it would probably disappear ... but where, exactly, is the weave, in a physical sense?  I certainly don't know ... is it along the edges of the gateway?  Behind it?  Somewhere else?  I can't recall a description that includes that information ... so the problem remains lining the Gholam up.

 

While it is true that we don't have any accurate description, to me the scene in POD where Elayne picks the gateway apart at least hints at the weave being focused around the edges. And considering what happened there, it might be quite unpleasant for people standing nearby if the Gholam only melts part of the weave. Though such an explosion should probably kill it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If it melts the weave, it would melt all of it I think, just making the Gateway disappear. You could grab him by the torso and jump through a gateway to kill him though. That is if you're strong enough and what Rand said about gateways are true.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 months later...

I'm kind of dragging up an old thread here but I had a thought relating to this today and wanted to get others opinion.  What if gholams are made up entirely of the OP and the reason weaves have no effect is because it absorbs any weaves and incorporates it into it's own being?  Since Mat's medal negates the OP that would explain it hurting it.  Taking that a step further, would it be possible for someone to open themselves to it (the gholam) like a well and draw all of the power out of them to destroy them?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Since Mat's ter'angreal effectively absorbs the OP and it burns the Gholam when it touches it; I'd speculate that these things are made of the OP and it uses the OP somehow in its normal day to day life.  There must be some other similar ter'angreal items out there made to combat these things.  We just haven't seen them yet.  At least I hope there are.

 

Modification:  It may also be that channeling against these things actually makes them stronger and to kill them the power must be taken away as Mat's ter'angreal does.  That would make these things the perfect weapon against channelers.

 

Modification, Modification:  Bah, I should have read the entire thread before I restated what was already said.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well since reading this I wonder if a channeler could 'unravel' a weave and hold it till the gholam steps near and breaks the weave and BOOM! I am guessing though he would just make it disappear.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with unraveling a weave and then letting it go is that you don't know what will happen. It could blow up, or it could still everybody within a mile of it, or absolutely nothing could happen... remember, Elayne (I think it was her) suggested that very thing, using a partially unravelled weave as a weapon and Aviendha told her it wouldn't work.

Link to post
Share on other sites

there's a great post out there- w/in the last 4 months or so- that covers a pretty in-depth debate about whether or not balefire would work against a gholom....the real debate being is balefire actually a weave or the result of one. Also, from what we've seen, balefire destroys its intended target before it actually touches it...the target just ceases to exist.

 

for that reason, i am of the school of thought that balefire would work just fine...ill try and find the link to that thread!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't see balefire working-just because balefire burns out a thread retroactively doesn' doesn't mean that it isn't an am actual weave.  Since balefire doesn't exist in nature-like lightning, or fire-I can't see it as being the RESULT of a weave, either.  In fact, even most manifestations of fire we see in the power don't act like actual fire, so I can't see those working either.

 

My theory with lightning is that it would work, but you can't make the gholam the direct target.  You have to target the area where he is standing.  That sounds very RPGesque and a mere technicality, but if lightning is creating by ionizing the air, as I assume, then if you try to bring the lightning directly into the gholam, the weave would touch him and dissipate.  If you brought it down near him and he didn't touch the weave, it could work.

 

Additionally, I can't see the Forsaken being as wary around gholam as they are if balefire takes them out-they can all create it, and it's nearly impossible to avoid.  It has to be trickier than that.  Even my lightning solution is problematic.  Of all the solutions I've heard, I think Deathgates work the best-but he still could conceivably dissipate those weaves, also, and he's fast enough to avoid them, if they aren't right on top of him. Alternatively, just surrounding him with rubble and trapping him inside, then burying him would work-he'd eventually starve.

Link to post
Share on other sites

i don't know about all the balefire theories, but i've always thought of balefire as a hole in the pattern(similiar in application to a vacoule).    however, for this hole to exist in the first place(as well as being able to move), it needed the balefire wave on its perimeter in order to 'keep it open.'  thus, the very edge of the balefire is made of the OP and would dissipate upon touching the gholam.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

I think that the Gholam will try to attack one of the female character (Moiraine, Tuon, Elayne and her babies) and Mat will slice the Gholams chest open woth his ashanderaiand he will shove the medallion into its chest, killing the Gholam and possibly destroying the meddallion. I think that RJ put the medallion there specifically to kill the Gholam. I also think it would be cool for all the blood of the Gholams victims came spilling out its mouth.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My first post, long time lurker but not in a creepy way...

 

I think that a gholam could be defeated by forcing it to enter a stedding or Far Madding.  I don't remember seeing it go into either.  They both have the same property of the medallion in that the one power can't enter or touch them, although it can be brought into them with a well... I guess it depends on if it absorbs the weaves or if it is made of weaves that repel other weaves. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
There was a topic here a few months ago where someone suggested opening horizontal gateways underneath the gholam (which RJ specifically said is possible), and that seems like a pretty surefire way to get rid of them.

 

This reminded me of a humorous thought i had when i was thinking on what OP score to give my Dreadlady. The concept:

 

  • Open horizontal gateway under target. Non-gholam, channelers not recommended w/out proper Shielding. Fades preferred due to higher damage tolerance.
  • Target comes flying out of (up from) horizontal gateway a few feet away. Have other channelers create 'fake' gateways in a grid-like pattern to increase amusement factor.
  • Bring in a couple of channelers nearby capable of weaving Club of Air.
  • Have them train it by knocking the Fade back into one of the horizontal gateways, propelling him out of another gateway again.

 

Whack-A-Fade XD

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...