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Age of legends


SonAr
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The thing that vexes me the most is ,why did no ,all knowing aes sedai survive from the havoc made by mad men and the wars with forsaken. I was reading about the age of legends and i found a passage which reminded me about the portal stones. They could be used to travel to different dimensions and worlds...

So now why didnt any aes sedai use them to rescue himself and a handfull of people to another dimension or world. Maybe they could take some artifacts or books with him to secure knowlege about the blessed ages. Why did so many terangreals ,sangreals and angreals survive but no jo'kars, the flyking cars, shocklances and other crap from the AOE survive?? Why when they knew that men are going mad, did no one manage to save some usable stuff for the next generations?

I think RJ didnt think a lot of things throughfully

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Well, I see why you would ask such a question- and its a really good question....

 

The only thing that I can come up with for the first part of your question is that the Aes Sedai of the time were so focused on survival and saving the world, that no one probably wanted to "defect" and ulimately run away to save themselves. I suppose that hindsight being 20/20, had they known that all of their knowledge would be lost, they would have sent a score of browns into seclusion to protect their knowledge, but for whatever reason, that never happened.

 

As for the 2nd part of your question, they couldn't save everything so they chose the most important items that they could find: Ter'Angreal, Sa'Angreal and Angreal and sent them into the waste w/ the Jenn Aiel to protect. They also stores some items in Statis boxes (some which have still not been discovered).

 

If our world was about to end and I had to save the most important items that would help or benefit the future of mankind (as much as it pains me to say this....), my Blackberry and other such luxury items would fall to the bottom of the list....so would my minivan  ;D....but my secret stash of sa'angreal would certainly be on the top of the list  :o

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Well, to dispute you, lots of things did survive but it has been 3500 years with massive, massive amounts of destruction.  angreal are fairly indestructible whereas your average Chevey isn't.  Whitebridge survived, lots of artifacts (the panarchs collection, wood in the Amyrlin's study, a satellite dish, mercedes benz symbol, etc etc etc.  Also, who's to say that some didn't escape to other worlds???  We know for a fact that some AS used the portal stones to bring back raken, to'raken and grolm to fight shadowspawn so its possible they stayed there.  It just hasn't been mentioned. 

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I bet some of them did do exactly that. But we have to remember one important thing. The World was Broken. Mountains rose where there were plains. Oceans filled mountain ranges. If they would have tried to come back to a portal stone that the left from they probaly found themselves at the the bottom of the ocean or stuck into the middle of a mountain. After a few of Such outcomes I bet they gave up on returning(assuming they acctually did leave.) Unless they were extremely good Gamblers and chose an above ground stone they would have surley perished.

 

On a side thought, how do we know what happens to there other worlds when something catostropic happens in one of them. Where they went might have been worse than where they came from.

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Don't forget too, most of the Male angreal and sa'angreal were destroyed to prevent madmen from using them.  Callandor was saved because of a foretelling and someone may have realized that the foretelling of "healing the wounds of maddness and cutting of hope" meant both access keys.  As for other male sa'angreal we do not know cept for the Lanfear reference.  As for Jo'cars and the like, I think they operated with the standing flows, which are destroyed.  as for portal stone flight ditto others.  On the subject of RJ, I think he was deliberately vague about the AOL; I see two possibilities for this  a.  he was leaving the door open for future novels, despite what he said or b.  I think this more likely, that he wanted to give the AOL a deliberate air of mystery.

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Demandred brings up a good point, in that the whole point of this story is that the Wheel of Time turns, leaving memory that becomes myth, etc. etc. etc....part of moving on from one age to another is leaving the past in the past. It immortalizes the AoL by leavig almost all technology there and its what seperates the ages.

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We know for a fact that some AS used the portal stones to bring back raken, to'raken and grolm to fight shadowspawn so its possible they stayed there.  It just hasn't been mentioned. 

 

Whoa. Where does it say that? I know Rand ran into Grolm during his trip sideways but where does it say tht they came to the real world through the stones.? Is that a BWB reference?

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Whoa. Where does it say that? I know Rand ran into Grolm during his trip sideways but where does it say tht they came to the real world through the stones.? Is that a BWB reference?

 

Yeah its in BWB

 

Demandred brings up a good point, in that the whole point of this story is that the Wheel of Time turns, leaving memory that becomes myth, etc. etc. etc....part of moving on from one age to another is leaving the past in the past. It immortalizes the AoL by leavig almost all technology there and its what seperates the ages.

 

What seperates the ages is great events happening between them, like the breaking of the world, or the final battle will end this age.

 

Don't forget too, most of the Male angreal and sa'angreal were destroyed to prevent madmen from using them.  Callandor was saved because of a foretelling and someone may have realized that the foretelling of "healing the wounds of maddness and cutting of hope" meant both access keys.  As for other male sa'angreal we do not know cept for the Lanfear reference.  As for Jo'cars and the like, I think they operated with the standing flows, which are destroyed.  as for portal stone flight ditto others.  On the subject of RJ, I think he was deliberately vague about the AOL; I see two possibilities for this  a.  he was leaving the door open for future novels, despite what he said or b.  I think this more likely, that he wanted to give the AOL a deliberate air of mystery.

 

Ok you got your point through. I believe they saved the saangreals and angreals as most important on purpouse. But still i would like to see a scene in WOT, like in SG when O'neal finds a old hangar with lot of ancient devices ;) So many people survived the breaking, so why did no technology survive?

 

As for the for the standing stones the idea with AS trying to return through them and finding the stones underwater is a good one. And indeed maybe RJ had plans for another novel... Sadly we wont ever know :(

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The thing that vexes me the most is ,why did no ,all knowing aes sedai survive from the havoc made by mad men and the wars with forsaken.

 

Well, lets not forget that those Aes Sedai were likely seeking out dangerous situations. Certainly we know the war with the shadow did not simply stop the moment of the tainting. A majority of the stronger female Aes Sedai served under Latra Posae Decume for many years following the tainting of saidin engaging in fighting the shadow. And we know that the female Aes Sedai were similarily given to stopping their male counter-parts. Both these things are fairly dangerous missions to be undertaking, and the later certainly would have been a driving point throughout the entire breaking. Add that extra danger to the inherent dangers already in play during the breaking....

 

Also, in the Aiel Flashback Generator we see the Jenn with several Aes Sedai in Cairhein (women likely fleeing the campeign by Aes Sedai aligned with the Tower). These Aes Sedai seemingly remember the original nature of the Aiel, and feel it personally (note the description of them looking on the algai'di'siswai with 'sad eyes') this seems to me that they have personal memories of the Dai'shain and of the First Covenant, so its possible that these Aes Sedai were born in the Age of Legends, or, at the very least, in the early days of the breaking when some order did exist still.

 

So now why didnt any aes sedai use them to rescue himself and a handfull of people to another dimension or world.

 

That man would have gone just as insane in another world as he would have in the world from the books. Furthermore, any worlds solid enough to truly sustain human life of any large numbers would likely have already been dealing with its own breaking.

 

Why did so many terangreals ,sangreals and angreals survive but no jo'kars, the flyking cars, shocklances and other crap from the AOE survive??

 

Well, even by the end of the war jo'cars, shocklances and all the rest were incredibly rare. By that stage most soldiers were armed with swords and bows and arrows. The industrial productivity of their society was essentially wiped out during the first three years of the war (recall we're speaking of a war involving travelling, even one with ways of blocking it, securing specific areas would be hard) By the end of the breaking...

 

And just a side point, we see a shocklance in KoD (or rather the pistol version, as RJ phrased it), so not all were lost.

 

 

We know for a fact that some AS used the portal stones to bring back raken, to'raken and grolm to fight shadowspawn so its possible they stayed there.  It just hasn't been mentioned.

 

Keep in mind though, that occured in the days following the breaking. It was during the first thousand years, the time of the Ten Nations in Randland, that Aes Sedai in Seanchan were engaged in that hunt and destroy mission.

 

Ok you got your point through. I believe they saved the saangreals and angreals as most important on purpouse. But still i would like to see a scene in WOT, like in SG when O'neal finds a old hangar with lot of ancient devices  So many people survived the breaking, so why did no technology survive?

 

The Ancients were spread accross a galaxy, and simply left. The type of cataclysmic total destruction that ended the Age of Legends is much more complete. And even before that people had fallen to a near medieval stage, using horses and wagons and swords.

 

Beyond that, though, recall that most of the technology in the Age of Legends were to one degree or another power based (including sho-wings and jo-cars), and accessible to the common population using something called 'the standing flows'. So in reality you have seen a more than a few of the technological devices that were present in the Age of Legends already, only most now can only be used by channelers. Not all, of course... certainly we see lightsticks and other devices that work without active channeling, but yeah.

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To quote Robert Jordan:

 

Question:

 

How did the people of the current Age go three thousand years without discovering the military applications of explosives? Were the Illuminators just that ruthless?

 

Robert Jordan Answers:

 

The Illuminators were completely ruthless in protecting their secret. And they put about tales such as that exposure to air could sometimes makes the substances inside fireworks explode without fire, and even more violently than fire did, in order to discourage close examination. Then there is the fact that there hasn't been a single three thousand year climb from barbarism and disaster, but three roughly one thousand climbs, from the Breaking of the World, from the near total destruction of the Trolloc Wars, which either destroyed or doomed every nation then existing, and from the devastation of the War of the Hundred Years. As an historical note, fireworks were used in China for roughly a thousand years before someone decided to use gunpowder as a weapon. As a matter of desperation, they dropped large firecrackers on the heads of soldiers climbing siege ladders. And by the evidence I've seen, gunpowder wasn't used as a weapon again for several hundred more years after that. I can see the view. All right, they held off the assault, but firecrackers? Firecrackers?

 

 

That is another reason nothing has survived.

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[hijack]

 

And just a side point' date=' we see a shocklance in KoD (or rather the pistol version, as RJ phrased it), so not all were lost.[/quote']

 

You remember the chapter, or what happened in the chapter?

 

Ch 31, House on Full Moon Street

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Why does everybody refer to the Aes Sedai as being the Women who were in charge before and during the Breaking,,, they were not,,, they were convicted felons sentenced to live in Bondage under the OAT RODS as punishment for their crimes,,, I am going to Start another topic for that.

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Why does everybody refer to the Aes Sedai as being the Women who were in charge before and during the Breaking,,, they were not,,, they were convicted felons sentenced to live in Bondage under the OAT RODS as punishment for their crimes,,, I am going to Start another topic for that.

 

Really ? Why did Semirhage , who was an Aes Sedai before her pervesions were discovered , objected to being binded? Also , could you provide quotes to back your statement up ? Lastly ,the Oaths were insituted after the Breaking , not before . There is a legion of evidence to rebut your conceptions , unfortunately . Lastly , Aes Sedai during the Age of Legends were both Male and Female . Saidin had not yet been tainted at that time . Hope that clears up some misconceptions. :)

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