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I'm surprised Lanfear didn't smell bad....explain???


bjclinton
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So think back to the Great Hunt...Hurin's a sniffer, they're hunting for the horn, and he has the ability to smell evil: darkfriends, crimes, creatures of the DO...and the only things that smell worse than Trollocs and Myrds are darkfriends....really bad darkfriends. Fain for example smelled so foul that he almost couldn't stand it.

 

All of that being said, I can't seem to figure out why he wasn't able to smell any foul odors eminating from Selene. It just doesn't make sense. They were with her for days on end, and yet no foul odor. Does anyone have any theories on this? Its not possible that Lanfear has been "crime free" and I find it unlikely that she somehow knew that Hurin was a sniffer and figured out a way to block her "scent."

 

Could this have been a small detail missed? Thoughts?

 

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I am thinking that the weave of illusion Lanfear used was so strong, that whenever Hurin thought he was sniffing violence from Lanfear, his talent would direct his "sniffing" to another location or person. Remember, Rand and company were focused on finding and catching up to Fain and those with Fain.

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Hurin doesn’t really smell DFs. He smells violence. Since most shadowspawn live for nothing but, they are easily "smelled." Same with really bad DFs, and Fain. It is impossible to be that evil without doing serious violence.

 

As far as Selene goes:

I could very easily be wrong, but I think that Lanfear had just recently come out of her "stasis"(I can't think of any better term for it). Since the smell of things fades after a while, and let's be honest, 3000 years is a long while, any violence that she had done personally will have faded. Knowing Lanfear's obsession with LTT, I don't think she would waist any time seeking him out, and seeing as Ishy was keeping a really close eye on him at the time, she wouldn't need to torture anybody to find him.

 

In short, any violence she had done had faded, and she hadn't needed to do any more before she found Rand.

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I don't know about that Nelal- Ordeith was trapped in Shadar Lagoth for almost as long as Lanfear was trapped and once he took over Fain's body, his odor was almost unbearable....as one of the most powerful forsaken of all time, I have to assume that the evil deeds that she's committed could never be wiped free...(for example, swearing her soul to the DO, trying to break him free, murdering hundreds of people and hundreds of Aes Sedai....she's probably the worst Darkfriend that has ever lived- or at least one of them.

 

Also, consider that time froze for her while she was trapped w/ the dark one in his prison. Not so much for Aginor and Beth. because they were so close to the surface- but she didn't age at all- it was almost like time stopped for her, so I dont think her odor could have worn off....

 

The mask of illision could have accounted for that- thats something that I hadn't thought of....

 

....c'mon lucker, maj, RAW and company- give us your thoughts : )

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I'd say it's most likely a matter of time. The smell Hurin scents does wear off after some time, and it is quite possible Lanfear did not do any actual violence between being released and her encounter with Rand & Co.

It is also quite possible she did not do any actual violence for quite some time before getting sealed up with the DO. The forsaken were leaders in the war of power, and while some of them, like sammael thrived on getting out and about on the battlefield, lanfear certainly seem a more sneakysneak persona.

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I agree with the basic answer of several people here: Hurin smells violence done, not evil intent.  He can smell really bad Darkfriends because many of them do bad things fairly often.  Fain smelled awful because the man is hip deep in casual murder as often as he can be.

 

Lanfear, while undoubtedly as evil as they come, probably didn't soil her pretty little hands with personal violence very often.  There's also the issue of smelling violence done physically vs. violence done with the Power ... we don't know that they would smell the same at all.  Hurin doesn't spend any time tracking Black Ajah or anything like that, as far as we know.  I'm not saying they definitely smell different, I'm just saying we don't know if they do.  I doubt very, very much that Lanfear has ever done much in the way of physical violence, so if violence with the Power does smell different, or not at all, then Hurin could have missed it, even if Lanfear had done some recently.

 

 

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after 'fusing' with mordeth, fain gained enormous strength.  significantly more capable of committing way more acts of violence, and probably more vile acts since hes super-human.  the effect of mordeth could not matter considering all the violence he did to his own trollocs and myrdraal.  point is its safe to say he probably committed enough violence to make up for how foul he felt to hurin on his own.

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Guest silver89

Could be that Hurin dismissed any smells wafting off of her. He pretty much worshipped her and was constantly distracted by her beauty. He could have put down any unusual smells as just another weird thing in a weird world.

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Ive got a few thoughts on this.

 

Some people have said the Mask of Illusions hid it. But I was under the impression she wasn't using one. I mean no one knew who she was, and she knew that she was very attractive and many men (like Hurin) would worship that.

 

Also, the fact she hadn't done much violence doesn't really make sense, A] because of no time passed (bjclinton's post) and B] I thought in that world Hurin could smell where violence would be done (I took out of it intended as well), and I think a plan to kill 12 of her peers and rule alone is pretty violent.

 

 

But hey, I've been very wrong before.

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Some people have said the Mask of Illusions hid it. But I was under the impression she wasn't using one. I mean no one knew who she was, and she knew that she was very attractive and many men (like Hurin) would worship that.

 

In TGH she was using the Mask of Mirrors to appear as a slightly younger version of herself.  This is evident when she appears in the Stone to Rand, as Selene, and then changes slightly when she identifies herself as Lanfear. (TSR ch 9)

 

B] I thought in that world Hurin could smell where violence would be done (I took out of it intended as well), and I think a plan to kill 12 of her peers and rule alone is pretty violent.

 

Hurin thought he might be smelling where violence would be done.  What he was actually doing was smelling the reflection of the violence that Fain and his Trollocs had done.

 

As far as sniffing is concerned, Lanfear's plans don't matter.  Hurin smells what actually happens, not what someone plans on doing.

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I agree with RAW but would like to add something new.    Lanfear was joining the group and wanted to stay with the group.  We know that she probably used a small MoM to enhance her looks, but couldn't she have added something - say a "charm weave" that would increase peoples tendence to "like" her.    Even though it was probably more for Rands benefit more than Hurins couldn't something like that give him the tendency to ignore any disturbing "smells" that came from her?

 

How about Rand?    By then he had already killed a considerable number of people and many thousands of Trollocks.    We know that his "intent" in those killings was not evil, but I thought it was the "act of violence" that brought the smell.

 

I don't have the book on me, so let me know if I am off base on any of this.

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We know that she probably used a small MoM to enhance her looks, but couldn't she have added something - say a "charm weave" that would increase peoples tendence to "like" her.

 

I doubt that she was using anything like that.  First of all, she would know the effect of her appearance on men, and be confident of Rand's affection on that basis alone.  Second, she would be aware of how strong minded Rand could be, and of the fact that such a weave would probably not work on him at all while he held saidin.

 

How about Rand?    By then he had already killed a considerable number of people and many thousands of Trollocks.

 

Actually, at that point Rand had not killed any humans with physical violence.  The High Lord Turak was the first human he personally killed.  And he had not killed very many Trollocs either.  I would guess (and it is only a guess) that intentions can mitigate the "scent" of actions, but it seems clear that intent alone cannot cause the "scent" that Hurin detects.

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How about Rand?     By then he had already killed a considerable number of people and many thousands of Trollocks.

 

Actually, at that point Rand had not killed any humans with physical violence.  The High Lord Turak was the first human he personally killed.  And he had not killed very many Trollocs either.  I would guess (and it is only a guess) that intentions can mitigate the "scent" of actions, but it seems clear that intent alone cannot cause the "scent" that Hurin detects.

 

Gee, Robert I really hate to disagree with the Pro but I was sure that Rand killed a few humans (Forsaken) at the EotW and a whole lot of Trollocks ++ at T-Gap when he did the shake the ground like a carpet thing.

 

Other than that - since his intent was not "evil" maybe it does not count.

 

Also, I am not sure about the Landfear thing.    Everyones reaction to her seems a bit "mesmorized" to me.  Maybe I am wrong because I am just going by memory, but I always thought that there was something more than just "good looks" going on.  Everyone just acts so "strange" around her, that I was always sure that she had something going on.

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Ishamael was severely injured, Balthamel was killed by Someshta and Aginor was killed by drawing to deeply on the Eye.  As far as Lanfear goes, after having given careful thought I now agree with the people that say Meiren visited the Finns and one of her "gifts" was to be the most beautiful woman alive.

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Demandred FO beat to the punch about events at the Eye.  Rand didn't kill any of the Forsaken.  The Green Man did for Balthamel, Aginor apparently did for himself, and Ishy didn't die.

 

Many Trollocs were killed at Tarwin's Gap, but Rand didn't deliberately kill them.  They were killed as a side effect of him lashing out blindly with the power, and thats an important distinction.  And most of them were simply driven back by the flames and earthquake.

 

This also might support the idea that violence done with the Power does not register in the same way that physical violence does.  In which case Lanfear's violence wouldn't register at all, since she pretty much uses the Power exclusively for her dirty work.

 

Also, I am not sure about the Landfear thing.    Everyones reaction to her seems a bit "mesmorized" to me.

 

I hope that some day, you meet a truly stunning woman.  Stunning in the literal sense, like, you see her and involuntarily stop.  I have known but one ... before I met her, I thought that stuff about just seeing a woman "taking your breath away" was romantic crap.  Alas, we turned out to be just good friends, but I can testify that "just good looks" in sufficient measure can truly stun a male audience.  Until I got used to her, I babbled like an idiot around her, and so did every other guy I knew (fortunately we got to be friends because I got over it quicker than most ....  ;) ). 

 

Lanfear is supposed to be the best looking woman ever.  And the boys, especially Rand, are only "mesmerized" for a relatively short time ... I mean, give Rand a break, he was a 19 year old virgin at that point.  Lanfear had several hundred years of seductive experience.  Leading the boys around by the short hairs was not something that she needed the Power for ...  ;D

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So think back to the Great Hunt...Hurin's a sniffer, they're hunting for the horn, and he has the ability to smell evil: darkfriends, crimes, creatures of the DO...and the only things that smell worse than Trollocs and Myrds are darkfriends....really bad darkfriends. Fain for example smelled so foul that he almost couldn't stand it.

 

All of that being said, I can't seem to figure out why he wasn't able to smell any foul odors eminating from Selene. It just doesn't make sense. They were with her for days on end, and yet no foul odor. Does anyone have any theories on this? Its not possible that Lanfear has been "crime free" and I find it unlikely that she somehow knew that Hurin was a sniffer and figured out a way to block her "scent."

 

Could this have been a small detail missed? Thoughts?

 

 

while Lanfear was/is evil it is strongly implied that she is working for her OWN goals and not to "the dark lord's". untill she is caught in the mind trap and then she is ishy's.

 

i have always seen Lanfear as one of those who don't see them selves as evil but is trying to make the world better but got lost it in.

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We know that she probably used a small MoM to enhance her looks, but couldn't she have added something - say a "charm weave" that would increase peoples tendence to "like" her.

 

I doubt that she was using anything like that.  First of all, she would know the effect of her appearance on men, and be confident of Rand's affection on that basis alone.  Second, she would be aware of how strong minded Rand could be, and of the fact that such a weave would probably not work on him at all while he held saidin.

 

I always thought she was using some form of weave that put people around her in some state of "awe".  I thought it was just a different version of some kind of compulsion weave - just a lot more subtle. 

 

-  Notice how she is surprised when Rand doesn't automatically obey her instructions/suggestions/commands.  She is pretty much stunned he can resist.  She expects everyone to obey. 

- Notice how every man is drawn to her as if under some sort of spell.  More so than just her being extremely beautiful. 

- Notice how her beauty (or the weave) even effects women - Min and Eqwene both note that.  They feel inferior around her. 

- Notice how she does NOT want to be around TOO many people.  She always disappears.  I think the weave is too difficult to maintain around too many people. 

 

I think even if Hurin did smell something about her, he would completely dismiss it.  Held under the influence of this weave, I think he would think that she is incapable of doing any violence. 

 

 

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I always thought she was using some form of weave that put people around her in some state of "awe".  I thought it was just a different version of some kind of compulsion weave - just a lot more subtle. 

 

Thats exactly why she wouldn't use that kind of weave around Rand; seizing saidin makes a male channeler completely immune to all forms of Compulsion that we've seen.

 

Notice how she is surprised when Rand doesn't automatically obey her instructions/suggestions/commands.  She is pretty much stunned he can resist.  She expects everyone to obey.

 

LOL ... gorgeous women do that kind of thing to men all the time.

 

Notice how every man is drawn to her as if under some sort of spell.  More so than just her being extremely beautiful.

 

You should spend more time around truly beautiful women ... observing men.

 

Notice how her beauty (or the weave) even effects women - Min and Eqwene both note that.  They feel inferior around her.

 

After you finish observing the men, then observe the women. 

 

Notice how she does NOT want to be around TOO many people.  She always disappears.  I think the weave is too difficult to maintain around too many people.

 

There are myriad other reasons why she would not want to be around large groups of people.

 

Also, if she had such a convenient weave, and it worked on Rand, why would she stop using it?

 

No ... she didn't need an "awe-inspiring weave".  She was just gorgeous.

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the weave was just a subtle altering of her age. she did not really alter her appearance that much, just a younger version of herself. i think she disappeared so often because she might have been unsure of who might be watching. none of the other forsaken trust lanfear when it comes to LTT.i dont think she would have had to use compulsion on these guys, a young beautiful girl,alone and in possible trouble? the alarms certainly would not have gone off.

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Also, if she had such a convenient weave, and it worked on Rand, why would she stop using it?

 

 

That was one of the points I made, she is surprised it did not work on Rand all the time, even when he was not holding the power.

 

No matter how beautiful she is, the reactions of the people around her are a little too extreme for her not to be using the power in some way.  I don't thinked she uses it later on, but I do think she was using it early on before she revieled herself as Lanfear. 

 

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Also, if she had such a convenient weave, and it worked on Rand, why would she stop using it?
That was one of the points I made, she is surprised it did not work on Rand all the time, even when he was not holding the power.

 

No matter how beautiful she is, the reactions of the people around her are a little too extreme for her not to be using the power in some way.  I don't thinked she uses it later on, but I do think she was using it early on before she revieled herself as Lanfear.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Obviously, you have never seen the effects that extremly beautiful women can have. No OP necessary, I'm afraid. And I found your earlier suggestion that a weave would be necessary to make women feel inferior even funnier.
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