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Deathblade

Book of Translation

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In KOD, the Ogier discuss the "Book of Translation". It is not made clear exactly whay this book is. However, Loial's opposition seems to be based on the fact that opening that book would mean the Ogier leaving and abandoning the huans to the shadow. What is this Book of Translation? Are the Ogier dimensional travellers? Will this book take them to a safer place?

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Guest Egwene

I wondered if it is the ter'angreal that Aviendha finds in KoD.

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The ter'rangreal Aviendha found was some kind of storage device containing lots of books:

 

"He holds more than the book you see. He holds thousands and thousands of books"

 

It's like a kind of holographic mobile library.

 

I get the impression that the book of translation is an item already owned by the Ogier, a different thing altogether. It might not be a literal book however. Possibly a ter'rangreal that teleports the ogier to another world. If it is a litteral book I guess it could provide the key a ter'rangreal elsewhere to port them.

 

I thought at first it might be a book that contains some kind of incantation that when read aloud 'translates' the ogier. However the 'magic' (for want of a better word) of tWoT series isn't based on incantations and spells... That being said, ter'rangreals can be unlocked in different ways. If singing the right song will make one work, surely saying the right words could make another work- hence the words would be the key.

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The ter'rangreal Aviendha found was some kind of storage device containing lots of books:

 

"He holds more than the book you see. He holds thousands and thousands of books"

 

It's like a kind of holographic mobile library.

 

I get the impression that the book of translation is an item already owned by the Ogier, a different thing altogether. It might not be a literal book however. Possibly a ter'rangreal that teleports the ogier to another world. If it is a litteral book I guess it could provide the key a ter'rangreal elsewhere to port them.

 

I thought at first it might be a book that contains some kind of incantation that when read aloud 'translates' the ogier. However the 'magic' (for want of a better word) of tWoT series isn't based on incantations and spells... That being said, ter'rangreals can be unlocked in different ways. If singing the right song will make one work, surely saying the right words could make another work- hence the words would be the key.

 

actually The ogier, can sing to trees to shape them thus "magic" and in the AoL the ogier, and humans and Nym sung together to make trees grow and prosper, sounds like magic to me. The ogier cant channel, but maybe they have a different way of using the power, singing? an incantation can be sung... maybe thats it? just my opinion

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actually The ogier' date=' can sing to trees to shape them thus "magic" and in the AoL the ogier, and humans and Nym sung together to make trees grow and prosper, sounds like magic to me. The ogier cant channel, but maybe they have a different way of using the power, singing? an incantation can be sung... maybe thats it? just my opinion[/quote']

 

That's a very good point! I don't think the ogier's ability is based on the One Power at all, but they do appear to have a power of their own, based on their song (as you said). I get the impression it's more bound with the shaping of growing things though- I don't think it would extend to creating a gateway (or equivalent) to another world. I could however be very wrong.

 

Again, it could be linked to the idea of a ter'rangreal that requires the 'right song' to be sung, the song being contained in the book of translation. It suddenly occurs to me that that is probably the ter'rangreal that Egwene (the poster above not the character)meant.... in which case she could be on to something. I thought she was referring to the the book ter'rangreal... (sorry). I don't think that specific ter'rangreal would be the one the Ogier require as they probably have it already (if that's what they use obviously). It could be a little hint however...

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I think it might be like a portal stone. The ogier think that the end is coming so they want t oget away. Like the people on the one island that poisened themselves. Tremalking i think. But, you never now unless you know that you dont know that which is never known

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It's commonly believed that the Ogier initially came from a different Portal World and that they used the Book of Translation to translate the "words" on the Portal Stones to take them to a different and safer world.

 

 

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The ter'rangreal Aviendha found was some kind of storage device containing lots of books:

 

"He holds more than the book you see.  He holds thousands and thousands of books"

 

It's like a kind of holographic mobile library.

 

I get the impression that the book of translation is an item already owned by the Ogier, a different thing altogether.  It might not be a literal book however.  Possibly  a ter'rangreal that teleports the ogier to another world.  If it is a litteral book I guess it could provide the key a ter'rangreal elsewhere to port them.

 

I thought at first it might be a book that contains some kind of incantation that when read aloud 'translates' the ogier.  However the 'magic' (for want of a better word) of tWoT series isn't based on incantations and spells... That being said, ter'rangreals can be unlocked in different ways. If singing the right song will make one work, surely saying the right words could make another work- hence the words would be the key.

 

I think Egwene was refering to this

 

A stone carving the size of her hand, all deep blue curves - it felt like stone, at least, though somehow it did not really look carved - was for growing something. Not plants. It made her think of holes, only they were not exactly holes. And she did not believe anyone had to channel to make it work. Only sing the right song! Some ter'angreal did not require channeling, but really! Singing?

 

Not the Book of Translation. It does however sound an awful lot like the Talisman of Growing, which was used to grow the Ways.

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Well it stands to reason that the ogier have to disappear. The wheel turns and at one time there has to be no ogier. I believe that the Book of Translation is partaining to the portal stones. Loial had quite alot of knowlege on them after all.

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I'm of two minds on this one. On the one hand the book containing the Song that would take the Ogier away has a certain appeal to me.  And considering the Powers the Ogier have had in relation to Songs, it's a possibility.  However a book translating the Portal Stones makes sense to me as well. Perhaps the Ogier were the creators of the whole Portal Stone network. After all, they do seem to have some special Talents when it comes to working stone.

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Mabye the Ogier don't come from any world touched by channeling, or the power. That would explain the power of they're song. Maybe the Book of Translation will send them back to they're world. But, this is so unlikely that I probably shouldn't have even bothered bringing it up. More likely, it will be one of the aformentioned theories. Or, to put out a realistic theory of my own, maybe it seals off the Stedding from humans and shadowspawn entirely. Just because Loial says they would be abandoning humanity doesn't mean forever. Or, maybe, it does. I smell a question of the week.

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I believe the Book of Translation is an artifact or tool which operates along the same lines as the Portal Stones.  Indeed, the Portal Stones may have been created based on principles found by studying the Book of Translation.  (Of course, I think this in part because it would square nicely with the idea that the Portal Stones were not actually created by channelers, but are just a source of power that channeling happens to be able to tap into).

 

Whatever it is, the Book doesn't seem to need the Power to operate, or even a song, necessarily.  Every reference to it (there aren't many, of course, and they are all in KoD ch 19) simply mentions opening it.

 

Covril says, "The Book of Translation must be opened as soon as possible."

 

Loial says, (skipping to the middle of his speech) "We did not open the Book of Translation and flee.  We marched alongside the humans and fought the Shadow.  In the Trolloc Wars, we neither hid in the stedding nor opened the Book of Translation."

 

and later, "Perhaps in a year, or five, or ten, we will open the Book of Translation, but if we do it now, we cannot run away with any real hope of safety."

 

So, it seems, all that is required is to open it.  Perhaps different pages determine different destinations, or the destinations are set in a certain order.

 

Wherever it takes them, it is a place within and subject to the Great Pattern, and the worlds reachable by Portal Stone fit that description. (Loial says, "Tarmon Gai'don is coming, and on it hangs the fate not only of this world, but of any world we might flee to.")

 

It also seems that the Ogier follow a course, possibly through several worlds, almost like a ritual migration.  It is a path they have trodden before.  (Covril says, "We must leave this world eventually, so we can come to it when the Wheel turns.  That is written.")

 

I'm curious to see what will happen to the stedding when the Ogier leave.  I have a hunch (though that is all it is, I certainly have no evidence) that the stedding will also leave when they go, and that it will also mark the start of a steep decline in channelers being born.  (By way of clarification, I don't mean that the actual ground of the many different stedding will actually dissapear, but that those regions will simply no longer be stedding.)

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In support of that, when Verin speaks of those that made the portal stones she speaks of those that 'knew the numbers of chaos'.

 

Possibly a simplistic reference to some sort of understanding of the mathematical prinicipals behind interdimensional travel? And if so, maybe recorded in the Book of Translations--being, possibly, a translation of mathematical prinicipal into specific instructions as to a way of travelling to the Ogier homeworld.

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I think there is no Ogier homeworld, I think they just wander from world to world. Which would explain there affinity for the Tuatha'an. I think that the One Power may not be the only power source the Creator made. Maybe the Book Of Translation runs on something from one of the many other worlds.

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Guest cwestervelt

Any afinity the have with the Tuatha'an isn't connected to there wandering.  The Tuatha'an are descended from the Aiel that abandoned the task set for them by the Aes Sedai at the Breaking.  The Ogier, Nim and Aiel served the Aiel in the Age of Legends.

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I don't believe the book of Translation will be opened anytime soon, because presumably the book will bring the Seanchan Ogier over as well, and they are far too grim and violent as they are now. They need time to mellow out.

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Idk, it seems like the sort of thing that the Ogier would have to gather for, and, i guess, sing together to activate it. Btw, do you think RJ is gonna have the Translation in MoL?

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Guest cwestervelt

I don't believe the book of Translation will be opened anytime soon, because presumably the book will bring the Seanchan Ogier over as well, and they are far too grim and violent as they are now. They need time to mellow out.

 

Beyond not being affected by the Longing, I don't think there is that much difference between the Seanchan Ogier and those we met first.  Loial isn't what I would call lacking in aggression when it comes to defending what he considers important.  Neither was Eldar Haman

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true and it did say that it was unthinkable for any Ogier to fight in Senadar except in the name of the Empress. Which is pretty much how they act here with Loial fighting in the name of Rand.

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Right. I figure that something like the Book of Translation will be a device that will go beyond geographic boundaries or political allegiances and  deal with the Ogier in their entirety, as a species, regardless where they are, but it may well be that they all have to gather and perhaps even agree. I definitely think we'll see them leave in aMoL. I mean, we saw the elves leave in the Return of the King; I think it's the high fantasy formula. Besides, it would be bittersweet and fitting, I think. :)

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