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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Lan's Bond *spoiler if you havent read past book 6*


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I'm on book 7 (for the 3rd or 4th time) and Lan has just reached Salidar, as his bond transferred to Myrelle upon Moiraine going through the ter'angreal with the green-eyed-monster (aka Lanfear).

 

Did this stop him wanting to avenge Moiraine any more than Rand? Normally we know that Warders die avenging their Aes Sedai but did the 'bond swap' stop this? Will it keep it at bay forever and what impact will it have on Lan (I havent read the last book in print) when Moiraine reappears?

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I almost hate to RAFO you. You will find out later how he is affected, as well as how he feels regarding his bond.

 

If you want someone to tell you...well I'm sure someone will.

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Did this stop him wanting to avenge Moiraine any more than Rand? Normally we know that Warders die avenging their Aes Sedai but did the 'bond swap' stop this?

 

Short answer?  No.  Lan still felt the death-effect of the bond being snapped.  Its why he assumes Moiraine is not dead.

 

Will it keep it at bay forever and what impact will it have on Lan (I havent read the last book in print) when Moiraine reappears?

 

His marriage to Nynaeve has already begun to mitigate the effects ... Moiraine's re-appearance would do more to benefit him, surely.  But since the effect is more than just psychological (its an actual effect of the Power and the bond) its difficult to say whether the effects would be completely banished, even by Moiraine's re-appearance.  My personal opinion is that the effects would be further mitigated, but never quite completely erased.

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Not that I believe this will happen but I wonder if Moiraine re-bonded Lan would it help matters....

The only thing I can think of that is even slightly similar is when Siuan Sanche's stilling is healed, she  is overwhelmed with grief for her warder. Maybe by re-applying that bond the effect the 'severing' felt by Lan could be repaired. This is purely speculation mind.

 

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I honestly have no idea whether that would work or not.  If it would, it would be worth doing.  We've seen that more than one person can bond a man simultaneously.  Moiraine could bond him to repair the damage, then release him (which does not inflict the same sort of functional damage).

 

I doubt that Lan will ask, though, or that Moiraine will offer it to him.  If anyone proposes it, it will either be Nynaeve, or be proposed to Nynaeve.  And if Nynaeve tells him to, Lan will try it.

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I strongly doubt any re-bonding would help. rather, if Moiraine bonded him again it would be the same as if any other female channeler bonded him. At least when it concerns the physical damage done by a severed bond. It might help him mentally though.

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Thats a good point. We know it can be done but I don't think that Nyaneave would be willing to share his bond with her. There is also no garentee that she accually would release the bond. On another point i seems to remeber reading that releaseing the bond is almost as bad as severing it. BUt i could be wrong. If  that is the case then Nyaneave would definatly not want to put her husband through another bond breaking ordeal if she couls avoid it.

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Nynaeve probably wouldn't want to be bonded to Lan because then he'd be inside her head.  You know about these WoT women and their power trips and not saying how they really feel.

 

I bet she bonds him before he goes riding off into the sunset though. How else will she know when he dies?

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Nynaeve probably wouldn't want to be bonded to Lan because then he'd be inside her head.  You know about these WoT women and their power trips and not saying how they really feel.

 

I bet she bonds him before he goes riding off into the sunset though. How else will she know when he dies?

 

Actually, Nynaeve is quite determined to bond him. She doesn't not want him in her head. And if you want to talk about power trips, why don't you start with Rand, or Perrin and his everybody-can-die-as-long-as-Faile-lives attitude, or any of the Asha'man. You think WoT women have power trip issues?! The men are just as bad. As for Lan, he isn't going to die. He's been through enough.

 

Thats a good point. We know it can be done but I don't think that Nyaneave would be willing to share his bond with her. There is also no garentee that she accually would release the bond. On another point i seems to remeber reading that releaseing the bond is almost as bad as severing it. BUt i could be wrong. If  that is the case then Nyaneave would definatly not want to put her husband through another bond breaking ordeal if she couls avoid it.

 

Hmmm...I thought releasing a bond was easy on the warder. Then again, if that was true, Moir could just have released Lan before tackling Lanfear. I'm not sure.

 

I don't think it would be that hard to convince Myrelle to release that bond. She's already terrified sick that everyone will find out about it. Plus, I'm sure Ny would be rather forceful if Myrelle resisted. Let's just say it might not be a good idea to get on Ny's bad side.  ::)

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Myrelle is going to release Lan's bond to Nynaeve.  She stated so to Egwene.  It was part of the arrangement between her and Moiraine.  That is why she was pushing Nynaeve so hard in Salidar, she started as soon as she felt the bond pass to her.  But when Egwene raised Nynaeve and Elayne, Lan wasn't there yet--and Myrelle doesn't really think she's ready.  The three of them have to be together for Myrelle to transfer the bond to Nynaeve. (Myrelle, Lan and Nynaeve.)

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Did this stop him wanting to avenge Moiraine any more than Rand? Normally we know that Warders die avenging their Aes Sedai but did the 'bond swap' stop this?

 

Short answer?  No.  Lan still felt the death-effect of the bond being snapped.  Its why he assumes Moiraine is not dead.

 

 

I really missed this one, can someone explain?  Lan assumes Moiraine is not dead?  I thought he thought she was dead?

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Hmmm...I thought releasing a bond was easy on the warder. Then again, if that was true, Moir could just have released Lan before tackling Lanfear. I'm not sure.

 

Regardless of whether releasing a bond is easy on the warder, I'm pretty sure it requires time and effort (and quite possibly physical contact) that Moiraine would not have been able to take while simultaneously fighting a Forsaken. Alternatively, if she had done it in advance, Lan would know something was up. She also wasn't a full 100% sure about what was going to happen to her and when, so what actually happened regarding their bond makes the most sense.

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Indeed, RJ states that releasing a bond requires attention, strength and personal contact, none of which Moiraine was capable of whilst fighting Lanfear.

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but she knew it was going to happen (or at least that it was very likely) when she wrote those letters

 

I still don't understand why Moir did not pass the bond directly to Ny...come on, don't tell me she doesn't want to break the rules....balefire is not exactly encouraged by the Tower either, ya know?

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she probably thought, and may very well have been right, that nynaeve wouldn't be ready for it... i mean just think of all the conflicting emotions (i know, i know, i try not to either) nynaeve is happy she finally gets to be with lan but then remembers its only because moiraine died so she feels like she is happy that moiraine died, which leads to lots and lots of guilt, lan is of course the post death of an aes'sedai suicidal and probably feeling the beginnings of happiness which of course adds to the guilt he already feels for not saving moiraine... sounds like a really good way to start a relationship there...

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Because she knew Myrelle had experience with warders who needed extra care after the breaking of their bond - are you so sure Nyn would have known or been able to do what was necessary to keep Lan sane?  And why break a rule just because you can?? Balefire was necessary, and passing a bond to an Accepted wasn't. Additionally, it would have been a huge surprise to Nynaeve to suddenly have that bond with no forewarning. Myrelle was already aware that she very possibly would be receiving Lan, because she had discussed it with Moiraine. If Moiraine had told Nynaeve, Nynaeve would have asked a million questions and that may have disrupted Moiraine's plan (and been very irritating, so I don't blame her one bit  ;D). And again, Moiraine wasn't sure what was going to happen. If she hadn't been severed, how would she explain to Nyn why she doesn't get Lan's bond after all, especially after raising her hopes that she might??

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I still don't understand why Moir did not pass the bond directly to Ny...come on, don't tell me she doesn't want to break the rules....balefire is not exactly encouraged by the Tower either, ya know?

 

Most of all, she couldn't.  She would have had to be in Nynaeve's physical presence to arrange the passing (not be in her presence when it happened, of course, but be in her presence to weave the weaves that make it happen), and she was never in Nynaeve's presence from the time she entered the rings at Rhuidean, and found out what would happen at the docks, and the time that it actually happened.

 

So, whether she wanted to or not, whether she thought Nynaeve was ready or not, whether she was willing to break the rules or not ... its all really moot.  Passing the bond to Nynaeve was not an option.

 

And again, Moiraine wasn't sure what was going to happen. If she hadn't been severed, how would she explain to Nyn why she doesn't get Lan's bond after all, especially after raising her hopes that she might??

 

Just to be picky on one point ... she had to know she would be severed.  In her letter to Thom she said that everyone would think she was dead.  Including, obviously, Lan.  If Lan hadn't suffered the death-absorption effect of the bond being broken (not passed), then he would not have assumed she was dead.  So, since she knew that Lan would think she was dead, but that she wouldn't actually be dead, that left only one option: severing.

 

It speaks volumes to me that Moiraine went knowingly and willingly to what most Sisters feel would be a fate worse than death.

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Most of all, she couldn't.  She would have had to be in Nynaeve's physical presence to arrange the passing (not be in her presence when it happened, of course, but be in her presence to weave the weaves that make it happen), and she was never in Nynaeve's presence from the time she entered the rings at Rhuidean, and found out what would happen at the docks, and the time that it actually happened.

 

So, whether she wanted to or not, whether she thought Nynaeve was ready or not, whether she was willing to break the rules or not ... its all really moot.  Passing the bond to Nynaeve was not an option.

 

Except that Moiraine passes the bond to Myrelle way before going to the Waste. And while she did not know about what the rings would tell her at that point, she did know that she might die at any given time, an obvous risk if you get yourself involved with the Dragon Reborn.

 

Of course, when she passes the bond, she mosty likely sees Nynaeves future being a few years safely tucked away in the Tower as Accepted, and passing the bond to an Accepted (which would mean a suicidal warder showing up in the Tower for anyone with half a brain to figure out what has happened) is not exactly a great idea, even if Moiraine had believed Nynaeve could handle Lan.

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Except that Moiraine passes the bond to Myrelle way before going to the Waste. And while she did not know about what the rings would tell her at that point, she did know that she might die at any given time, an obvous risk if you get yourself involved with the Dragon Reborn.

 

Of course, when she passes the bond, she mosty likely sees Nynaeves future being a few years safely tucked away in the Tower as Accepted, and passing the bond to an Accepted (which would mean a suicidal warder showing up in the Tower for anyone with half a brain to figure out what has happened) is not exactly a great idea, even if Moiraine had believed Nynaeve could handle Lan.

 

I'm curious, since what you just said is simply supporting what I said, and does not contradict it in any way, why did you phrase it as an objection?

 

Moiraine made those arrangements with Myrelle at a time when she could be in physical contact with her, not only before going to the Waste, but before the beginning of the books, in all probability.  By the time that Moiraine got information (at the rings in Rhuidean) that made the eventual breaking of her bond with Lan pretty much a certainty, instead of just a possibility (which might have prompted her to switch the transfer mechanism to Nynaeve, given the chance) changing the arrangements as they stood was impossible, since she wasn't near either Nynaeve or Myrelle at any time before the bond was broken.

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A matter on putting more emphasis on Nynaeve being an unsuitable option for recieving the bond, than on the opportunity to shift from Myrelle to Nynaeve.

 

We do not know if it would have been necessary for Moiraine to have physical contact with Myrelle for such a shift to take place, but it is very possible it was not since Myrelle did not actually hold the bond until it was snapped. In that case, Moiraine had the opportunity to give it to Nynaeve instead, for the same "Just in case" she used when she gave it to Myrelle. And the last time Moiraine and Nynaeve meet, Moiraine is perfectly aware of the feelings between Nynaeve and Lan.

 

 

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it turned out that moiraine was wrong. myrelle herself, states that she was at her wits end at what to do with lan. she had already tried everything she knew, and lan was still just slipping away. egwene thought that, perhaps, what lan needed was nynaeve.she was right.

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