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The characters you love to hate....


The Dragon Reborn
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I've been going through the other posts here for the last month or two. I notice that alot of people here really hate or at least strongly dislike alot of the characters in the series. Nynaeve, Elayne, Egwene, Faile, Perrin and even Rand are the character that most seem to have a problem with.

 

I got to say, personally I'm really confused by this. My favorite characters would be Mat, Rand, Lan, Moiraine and others, there are too many cool side characters to name so I won't bother. The others like Elayne, Egwene and the likes aren't particularly my favorite but I don't hate them.

 

I can't understand how people can hate so many of the main characters. If ye hate the likes of Rand and Perrin (who dominate roughly 2/3 of the series) how the hell can ye even stand to read the series anymore??  ???

 

I'd really be interested to hear from people who particularly dislike the mentioned characters (or others I forgot!) So I can understand how they manage to read a series where they quickly leaf through the parts not involving Mat.

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I mainly find myself annoyed because I don't find the impact of some of the other lesser main characters (Elayne and Nynaeve's adventures for awhile) to be anywhere as exciting as Rand waging war with forsaken and cleansing Saidin.  I find though, that as those characters are woven back into the other main plot lines I grow more excited. (Nynaeve's Malkier scene.)  Sometime it would be best if a character would just dissapear like Mat did (with Tylin).

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First off, my favorite characters are definitely Nynaeve, Lan, and Moiraine. *holding my knives ready to fling at all those who want to attack Nynaeve on this thread* just joking... no, I'm not  ;D

 

I definitely don't hate Rand, but he is so frustrating at times. Even knowing the agony he goes through every day doesn't always justify his actions. But I also feel a lot of sympathy for him. I do like reading parts from Rand's POV though. I think most people who "hate" him might feel similarly, more frustration than hate.

 

Perrin just plain scares me sometimes. Not a person I would want to be around when he is in a rage. Sometimes I just can't figure him out, so for now, I reserve judgement.

 

I also do like reading Egwene's POV though I don't necessarily like her. It's scary that she turned into this cold, calculating person from the sweet Emond's Fielder she used to be. I understand that some of that change was necessary, but it's just bizarre that she almost can't relate to her old self.

 

I do hate Elayne in most of the books, but I'll now use great self control not to rant about it.  ;D

 

I like reading from all different POVs of characters, even the ones I don't love. I might dislike some of them, but characters are so complex that it's not either "I like" or "I don't like". Even my favorite characters frustrate me sometimes, and my least favorite pleasantly surprise me.

 

 

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I understand that people don't like every character, there characters I don't like...but I'm talking about people who dislike most of the main characters. How can you read a book where you hate reading about the majority of the people in it.

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I don't think people hate them so much as they get frustrated with some of their stupider decisions, their more annoying aspects of their personality, etc. Perrin's blind obsession with Faile for one thing. It's frustrating seeing him willing to sacrifice thousands of lives just so he can save a half dozen people. Love or not, it's irresponsible. Of course, in the end it all works out, since he managed to defeat all of the Shaido in the process, ridding their presence from the continent. Except for the small contingent with Therava and Galina, of course, but still.

 

Each of the characters have certain aspects that I find incredibly obnoxious; Perrin's obsession (as I already said), Rand's brainless chivalry, every single woman character's arrogance and sexism, Mat's constant denial of who he is, etc etc. Doesn't mean I don't love the story, though. :P

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I will echo the point about some portions of the plot being less interesting than others, however, I find myself enjoying the series to the extent that I have decided to have faith in RJ's talent, and hope that the less interesting tangents of plot will end up having some signifigant relevance to the ending.  For example, both the siege of Camelyn line and the rescue of Faile plot line seemed to drag on interminably.  However, these two lines taken together have served to consolidate most all of the central kingdoms of Randland into two large groups of people/soldiers.  My assumption therefore, is that RJ will have some major aspect of TG happening in Andor, and that both of these arduous storylines will prove essential.  This seems to be supported by the example of Mat, not showing up for a whole book after breaking his leg.  We know that RJ can leave characters alone, if need be, so I assume that when he doesn't leave certain characters alone, it is for a reason.

 

Of course AMoL could come out, and prove dissapointing, but until then, I think I'll just go on trusting RJ.

 

That is except for that boring chunk where Elayne and Nyn are playing at joining the circus.

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For me the only POV's I like are Rand's Perrin's, Mat's and the Forsaken. Everything else is just filler to me, especially any time it's just Aes'sedai talking. But it's al necessary to the plot, and it makes good and interesting scenes all the better. As for characters i particualarly hate...any Aes'sedai irritates the hell outta me.

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I've never understood what people call Rand's whinning. I mean, what's more natural than for him to reflect on issues that weigh on his shoulders? What with the thinning PoVs from him as the books progressed, and yet apparently he finds time to whine 'constantly'.

 

As has been said, Perrin is literally obsessed with Faile. If I remember well, he would without hesitation sacrifice anything--and I mean anything, the Last Battle included, he thinks that--to get to Faile. Makes you wonder how he could live with his Faile if the world was ruled by the Dark One. That was one moment I thought he was very stupid. Arguably he wasn't thinking straight at that time, but the fact that he thought about it and seemed very determined speaks volumes. Everything has become Faile to him. I'm tempted to scan the pages when it comes to his chapters.

 

I could dump Elayne, Egwene, and Nynaeve into the same basket. The fact that they see men as inadequate at almost everything annoys me no end. Strangely enough, Faile doesn't seem to hold those views to their extent. Elayne's blundering in KoD were a big turn-off, and Egwene is becoming a robot with a swolen head. Nynaeve is actually the one who progresses more or less positively. Cadsuane seems to be doing some work.

 

And Faile is Faile. Don't get me started.

 

An I also like PoVs from Forsaken, more than almost all the other characters, I will pick Graendal's or Demandred's PoVs over Elayne's or Perrin's anytime.

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Perrin's obsession with Faile is an illogical, but very human emotion. The reason alot of people don't like that, i believe, is because people who read WoT tend to be very logical people, who probably would think with a level head in any situation. Periin's character is not really like that at all. Also, Rand's whining? How would anyone feel after going through a couple of years of having to face your imminent death.

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I could dump Elayne, Egwene, and Nynaeve into the same basket. The fact that they see men as inadequate at almost everything annoys me no end. Strangely enough, Faile doesn't seem to hold those views to their extent. Elayne's blundering in KoD were a big turn-off, and Egwene is becoming a robot with a swolen head. Nynaeve is actually the one who progresses more or less positively. Cadsuane seems to be doing some work.

 

Dump them into the same basket? Clearly you do not understand Nynaeve at all. Once you get past her biases, which by the way every single character displays, she is the single most caring character in the entire series. Most of the others plot and manipulate while Nynaeve is sincere. She changed the least of the Emond's Fielders.

 

Remember when Rand said that Nynaeve was the ONLY person he trusted to link with? That means he would not link with Elayne or Aviendha. Go figure.

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Remember when Rand said that Nynaeve was the ONLY person he trusted to link with? That means he would not link with Elayne or Aviendha. Go figure.

 

Rand trusts Nynaeve, but he's not in love with her.  He will expose her to risks that he wouldn't expose his women to.  There was a very real chance that just trying the Cleansing was going to kill both him and Nynaeve.  It was a risk he would take with himself, and with Nynaeve, but not with his women.  He would have left Min behind, if she would have let him, and she wasn't even involved in the link.

 

His reasons for excluding Elayne and Avviendha from consideration have nothing to do with a lack of trust.  He let them bond him for heaven's sake.

 

Of the women who he was not in love with, Nynaeve is the only one he trusted enough to link with using the Choedan Kal.  That does not mean he doesn't trust Elayne and Aviendha.

 

I have to say, I think that RJ has done an excellent job of displaying a range of reactions and ways of thinking among his characters.  And, just like in real life, some people find different ones annoying for different reasons.  I could get along with any of Rand's three (although Elayne would be pissed at me alot ...).  Nynaeve, on the other hand, would drive me up a wall.  That doesn't mean she's an evil person with no redeeming characteristics.  It just means we wouldn't get along, and I'd have to bite my tongue alot or face the wrath of Lan.

 

I couldn't be married to Faile, but I think I could handle being associated with her.  I would actually get along quite well with Berelain, I think.  Et cetera, et cetera.  My reactions to each of the characters varies, because RJ has done a wonderful job of making them individuals.

 

I don't like Nynaeve's methods all the time.  She is often short and preemptory, even when she is wrong.  But she has also worked miracles of discovery in Healing, and has displayed great increases in maturity following her marriage.

 

And I'm sure, if we ever met, that she would have plenty to say about ways I could improve too.  Most women do ....  :(

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I can't work the quote thing right now, so, Mashiara O Aan.a || ein (nice name by the way):

 

You're right, I can't claim to understand Nynaeve, but you notice I said that I could dump them in the same basket. I give Nynaeve the benefit of a doubt, since she seems to be cooling down. I know that one thing that fuels her temper is not being taken seriously because of her age, but that's just an excuse to bully people about, she should grow up (she's starting to), more power to her. She's somewhat different from Egwene and Elayne, certainly more caring than either, but as Robert said, she's curt in her manners. Whereas Elayne and Egwene are fully in that basket, Nynaeve is 3/4 in, or 1/4 out, depending on how you look at it.  8)

 

Berelain is cool, she is a Babe In Total Control of Herself (no insult intended)  :D

 

To add something, one other [minor] reason that could have led Rand to choose Nynaeve is that she's much stronger than either Elayne or Egwene, so she has [somewhat] better chances of surviving the flow through the Choedan Kal.

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Rand trusts Nynaeve, but he's not in love with her.  He will expose her to risks that he wouldn't expose his women to.  There was a very real chance that just trying the Cleansing was going to kill both him and Nynaeve.  It was a risk he would take with himself, and with Nynaeve, but not with his women.  He would have left Min behind, if she would have let him, and she wasn't even involved in the link.

 

His reasons for excluding Elayne and Avviendha from consideration have nothing to do with a lack of trust.  He let them bond him for heaven's sake.

 

Point taken, but Rand really did say (or rather think) that Nyn was the only Aes Sedai he trusted to do that. I am not actually convined that he truly trusts Elayne or Aviendha. Love and trust are not the same thing. Based on his past experiences, it's no wonder that he might be just a little wary of any woman who channels, even if he does love her. How do Elayne's loyalties really break down? She is torn three ways between Rand, Egwene/White Tower, and Andor.

 

As for getting along with Nynaeve...yeah, I could see where she would drive lots of people nuts  ;D

 

I can't work the quote thing right now, so, Mashiara O Aan.a || ein (nice name by the way):

 

Thanks!  :D

 

You're right, I can't claim to understand Nynaeve, but you notice I said that I could dump them in the same basket. I give Nynaeve the benefit of a doubt, since she seems to be cooling down. I know that one thing that fuels her temper is not being taken seriously because of her age, but that's just an excuse to bully people about, she should grow up (she's starting to), more power to her. She's somewhat different from Egwene and Elayne, certainly more caring than either, but as Robert said, she's curt in her manners. Whereas Elayne and Egwene are fully in that basket, Nynaeve is 3/4 in, or 1/4 out, depending on how you look at it.  8)

 

Fair enough. Though I disagree on the level of "in-the-basket-ness" ...less than 1/2 for sure, I'd say  ;)

 

 

 

As for Berelain *shudder*, I'm not one to pick fights, but I just know that woman would rub me the wrong way....I don't like Faile either...yech, I'd just avoid the both of them

 

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Point taken, but Rand really did say (or rather think) that Nyn was the only Aes Sedai he trusted to do that.

 

He did indeed.  He just didn't articulate the whole list of mental caveats that went with the statement.  The Warder bond is the equivalent of a permanent locator beacon/working mood ring.  I'm not sure that anyone can make any gesture of trust greater than allowing onesself to be the bondee ... its allowing access, albeit limited access, to your own brain.  Not to mention your body (Aes Sedai can apparently draw physical strength from their Warders).

 

You are entirely correct that love and trust don't always go together.  I just don't think that is the case here.

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I feel other characters such as Nynaneve and Elayne are OK, their stories are quite easy to get into but when im reading egwene i cannot wait to her part in the book is over - i just feel she is a pointless character

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Pointless character? That comment seems to me as if someone does not understand the importance of Egwene to the storylines of the WOT series. Its okay if the majority of fans don't like Egwene as a person, but to say that she is a pointless character? Well, I don't see how anyone can say that with any honesty at all.

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I know that if I were Rand, that I would have no problems trusting a dear childhood friend whom he has known for most of his life. Therefore, I know that I were Rand, I would trust Egwene. :)

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    I do not know about anyone else but I really dislike-(here I am being nice) Rand and his ilk ;D. To me he seems like such an unreal chauvinistic character. And don’t get me started on his "girls"  :'( - (I shudder even as I type that)

    NO NORMAL FEMALE IN OR OUT OF HER RIGHT MIND WOULD SHARE THE GUY SHE LOVES, WITHOUT EVEN A FIGHT!!!!!!>:(

I    mean that concept is preposterous. It is not as if they live in a time where polygamy was widespread. Therefore, they definitely did not grow up with such a concept. Here is one of the many places you could tell a male wrote this.

    A woman’s natural jealousy and possessiveness would not share a man without a fight even if the other competitor were her best friend. I am sure you have seen best friends become enemies because of this very reason! Now put one of these competitors as a princess used to getting whatever she wants and you get an extremely fictional character. To sum it up in case no one noticed I HATE  Rands "girls" especially Elain –I think tat silly little twit should grow a back bone! :o

    While I’m writing ill take the time to note morian is my favorite character and Rand did not help his case by acting nasty top her when she was trying to help in the earlier books!! :-*

 

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    I do not know about anyone else but I really dislike-(here I am being nice) Rand and his ilk ;D. To me he seems like such an unreal chauvinistic character. And dont get me started on his "girls"  :'( - (I shudder even as I type that)

     NO NORMAL FEMALE IN OR OUT OF HER RIGHT MIND WOULD SHARE THE GUY SHE LOVES, WITHOUT EVEN A FIGHT!!!!!!>:(

I    mean that concept is preposterous. It is not as if they live in a time where polygamy was widespread. Therefore, they definitely did not grow up with such a concept. Here is one of the many places you could tell a male wrote this.

 

Lets not forget that there is very large group and culture of people ((known as the Aiel)) where not only is polygamy common, but also an intergral part of their society.

 

     A woman's natural jealousy and possessiveness would not share a man without a fight even if the other competitor were her best friend. I am sure you have seen best friends become enemies because of this very reason! Now put one of these competitors as a princess used to getting whatever she wants and you get an extremely fictional character. To sum it up in case no one noticed I HATE  Rands "girls" especially Elain I think that silly little twit should grow a back bone! :o

Grow a backbone? Hmmm, i guess she did not display much of a backbone in winning back the Andor throne, did she? ;)

Elayne is an unlikeable person, if someone does not either understand or apperciate her background her personality, and her pov's.

    

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I    mean that concept is preposterous. It is not as if they live in a time where polygamy was widespread. Therefore, they definitely did not grow up with such a concept. Here is one of the many places you could tell a male wrote this.

 

Umm.. Well Vambram got to this before me, but I too will point out the Aiel. Also remember that Min is one of them, and she saw right away that she would have to share him with two other women, and she knows that she would have to accept it. Don't forget that Aviendha and Elayne are now "sisters" or whatever, in the Aiel sense, so I think other Aiel customs such as polygamy would be more acceptable to someone like Elayne. Also, don't forget that Rand is the strongest Ta'veren in memory.

 

I do agree that Elayne is just, so awful, but I like Aviendha and Min much more than the other female characters. Although she definately has a backbone. Lol.

 

Elayne is an unlikeable person, if someone does not either understand or apperciate her background her personality, and her pov's.

 

It seems like you are saying that if you don't like Elayne, it's because you don't understand or appreciate her background, personality, and POVs? I understand her, but I still hate her. I think she is the most boring and full-of-herself character in the books. That's just my opinion.

 

As for other characters I don't like, well, I never liked Egwene, Nyneave, or Elayne, but Egwene has kind of grown on me after KOD as well as Nyneave; Yea she's bossy, stubborn, sexist, but at least she really does care and can recognize when someone else is right. It took her until book nine but at least it happened. I also really hate Faile. If it weren't for her Perrin would still be cool. Now he's just a whipped puppy.

 

These characters are written for us to be mad at and hate on and get all frustrated over, but I do see your point about people hating all the main characters. If there are people who do indeed feel that way, it would be strange for them to keep reading.

 

Just for the record my favourites are Mat, Moridin, and Moiraine. And Rand of course.

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Based on his past experiences, it's no wonder that he might be just a little wary of any woman who channels

 

The flaw in this argument is that Nynaeve channels too, and better than most Aes Sedai. And in Rand's experience, she was generally bossy. So based on his past experiences, it's a wonder he did trust her.

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Based on his past experiences, it's no wonder that he might be just a little wary of any woman who channels

 

The flaw in this argument is that Nynaeve channels too, and better than most Aes Sedai. And in Rand's experience, she was generally bossy. So based on his past experiences, it's a wonder he did trust her.

 

Being "bossy" has nothing to do with trust. Rand trusts Nynaeve because he knows that when she wants to help him, she wants exactly that. No ulterior motives. Nyn changed the least out of all the Emond's Fielders. Look at Egwene, cold, calculating Amyrlin Seat full of secrets who can no longer even relate to her old self. Mat and Perrin are off doing their things, and they are both wary of Rand. They don't even treat him the same. In Nynaeve, Rand still sees the woman who was the Wisdom of Emond's Field. And, by the way, there is still a small degree of warines. Before they cleanse saidin, (I can't remember the exact point) Rand's thoughts are that she is the only Aes Sedai he can trust, as far as he can trust anymore. Out of necessity, there are few people (like Min) Rand fully trusts.

 

I'm not sure I see the flaw in the argument.

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