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dlan4327

The Dark is Rising (Strangely enough contains a mild Harry Potter spoiler)

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It definately did. To me, the height of absurdity was the chicken-that-wasn't-a-chicken-because-it-was-an-absurd-plot-point in book five.

 

Of course the book where the main characters weren't in it at all was fairly absurd too.

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The way I look at it is that if you are going to steal ideas from other authors, steal enough ideas and integrate them enough into your story that it is such an amalgamation of other ideas and concepts that it seems nothing like the things that influenced it.

 

It's understandable that you might like the ideas of other authors, but your book shouldn't be such a blatant imitation.

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I read Sword of Truth before Wheel of Time, so I have some loyalties to Goodkind for being my introduction to Fantasy (I had read Lord of the Rings, but it was SoT that got me hooked).

 

I really liked SoT up to the end of the sixth book (which was my favourite - I still enjoy it today), but the series should have only been seven books long, instead of dragging it out for 4 more novels.  I look forward to the final book, but mostly just for the sake of it finally finishing.

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If you completely ignore all the similarites between WoT and SoT(one letter off  :o) and some of the odder plot devices, then you can enjoy it. Just wanted to mention a book i thought was worth reading while waiting ofr aMoL...

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I've read a few books from the SoT. First of all, everyone there whispers. None speaks loudly. 'Richard whispered' 'Kahlan whispered' 'individual x whispered'. That annoyed me no end. Then there is the Richard-Kahlan, er, thing. Is that what you call love? I will stay single, thank you.

And as Luckers said, Richard is always right, and I can't understand how Goodkind could not see that that would become annoying. But at least Zedd is funny, and that guy who came to believe that the Creator was a darkling (is that the right word?) really amused me.

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o ya and another similarity between WoT and SoT is that they call there being of light creator, and by the end they start calling the keeper the Dark One occasionally...

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I was never a big reader, I perfer Audio Books mostly because I am a 1st class multi-tasker while I am writing this I have Harry Potter And The Chamber Of Secrets Playing in my ears and Fox News on the TV. (sound off watching the ticker at the bottom) But before I was introduced to The Wheel Of Time I only ever read the Hobbit, Lord Of the Rings and Harry Potter, beyond the books I was forced to read when I was still in school. I want to finish WoT before I dive into another series (only up to book 5 now) but I do plan on becoming a perminate fixture at my local Barns and Noble.

 

Darth_Andrea

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It definately did. To me, the height of absurdity was the chicken-that-wasn't-a-chicken-because-it-was-an-absurd-plot-point in book five.

 

Of course the book where the main characters weren't in it at all was fairly absurd too.

 

Yea that book, I think the "Pillars of Creation" did it for me. I like I good side story as much as anyone(My love for Wheel of Time pretty much demonstrates that) but this book was not just about a completely different set of characters, it was ridiculously boring too. Ive heard the last few are a lot better, so I might go back to them at some point, but right now reading Assassins Apprentice by Robin Hobb, and a 150 or so pages into it, am liking it quite a bit.

 

Also started and finished the Dark Tower Series a couple of weeks ago, and that was pretty good too. Cant compare it to WOT, the magics nowhere near as interesting or consistent, and the story doesnt hold together in anywhere close to the same way. Still the characters are pretty intersting, and Roland Deschain is an amazing character. In the first couple of books, Id have said he was as tough as Lan.

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It definately did. To me, the height of absurdity was the chicken-that-wasn't-a-chicken-because-it-was-an-absurd-plot-point in book five.

 

Of course the book where the main characters weren't in it at all was fairly absurd too.

Lol you just reminded me of the chicken that wasnt a chicken thing..I dunno how i could forget something that..er interesting ::)

Yea the Pillars of Creation where the main characters came in for the last 5 minutes of the book...still maybe by this point he'd decided to try and right his own book instad of...borrowing from others...didnt turm out great though really :'(

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ya i might've been the one that brought it up as good, but...the i skipped until the very end of pillars of creation, chainfire is good thoguh and so is phantom. Assassins apprentic is a great series, along with pretty much all of hobbs books. but it didnt liek the dark tower

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WoT and aSoIaF have ruined most fantasy for me, being that they are so well written its hard to judge anything else fairly. I have enjoyed RA Salvatore (just as I enjoy a good Kung Fu movie--the plot is simple but the characters and action are cool). Starting a new fantasy series can be a daunting task, so I recommend a few quick reads: "To Reign in Hell" by Steven Brust, the original Robert E Howard Conan tales, all of which are fairly short, and I'm halfway through "The Count of Monte Cristo" which I haven't been able to put down. A friend recommended a book called "A Bridge of Birds" by Barry Hughart, which is set in historic china. Instantly became one of my favorite books.

 

On the subject of SoT, I feel let down by Mr. Goodkind. Books 1-6, while ripe with imperfections, lent credit to his philosophy of individualism and seemed a good lesson. Book 6 would have been a great ending to the series. Books 7+ have felt disorganized, spontaneous, unplanned, and all-together unnecessary. It bewilders me why, after showing the value of his philosophy through the plot of books 1-6, and receiving much praise for his work, he deems it necessary to bludgeon us all as if we're idiots who just aren't getting it. I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about.

 

As much as I love the characters in that series (Richard was my hero for many years), I feel like they've all lost their souls in the wake of Mr. Goodkind's philosophical onslaught.

 

 

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Jacqueline Carey - Banewreaker

                  Godslayer

 

Go

Read

Enjoy

 

No more Goodkind for you.

Step away from the Salvatore.

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Salvatore rights some good Sword-and-Sorcery. The many Drizzt series can be enjoyed enough, but they don't really convey the realism of a High Fantasy series. The Sellsword books, a spinoff of the Drizzt books, are also enjoyable. My main qualm with Salvatore is, as I said, the unrealism. I think this is primarily due to the fact that he is writing in a world he didn't create, and feels limited as to how much freedom he can take.

 

Goodkind's not bad, 1-6, even though he does get tedious sometimes and also seems like a blatant ripoff at times. I'm not sure what genre I would place it in, though. I don't see it as High Fantasy, really, because the cast of characters is rather minimal (at least in books 1-4, the ones I have read). Yet the story is pretty well-written overall, and its contains a pretty dense plot, though not on par with ASoIaF or WoT.

 

It's something of its own. Perhaps my definition of High Fantasy is too narrow or not quite broad enough.

 

I don't see Harry Potter as High Fantasy either, though those are one of my favorite series (WoT, ASoIaF, and Harry Potter books are all about equal; even though Harry Potter may not be quite as well-written, it does have very relatable characters).

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As I mentioned in General Discussions, Jennifer Fallon is, in my opinion, probably the best Fantasy writer out there except... maybe... GRRM and Jordan. Like them she uses magic to write political high fantasy type stories, her character work and dialogue rocks. Heres a quote from what i wrote in that thread.

 

She has four series, and gets progressively better and more sophisticated with each.

 

1. The Demon Child - The story revolves around a struggle between Gods. The Primal Gods have inherent power because of their nature (War, love, death etc) whilst there is an incidental God who has power because his followers worship him... only he has gained too much so the Primal God's order that a human girl be born with the ability to use their combined power--The Demon Child. Her name is R'shiel.

 

2. The Second Sons - This one is where she shows her true ability (likely because she didn't have publishers altering the story). It's set in a world where there are two suns, and around twenty years ago one of them went into eclipse. A women, Belegren, figured out when the eclipse would end and used it to create a religion of sacrifice and power. The main story follows Dirk, a very intelligent lad who is for various reasons decides to take down Belegren and the Shadowdancers.

 

3. The Hythrun Chronicals - Set thirty years prior to The Demon Child, it follows a highborn woman, Marla, the sister of the High Prince of Hyrthia (a despot) as she attempts to assure the throne for her son, Damin. Again very political.

 

4. The Tide Lords - Set in a world were magic is Tidal, and certain people have gained both immortality and godlike power through access to it. Only they're kind of bastards, and since they can't kill each other, they tend to try and hurt each other by destroying what the others care for... including entire continents. And then comes Cayal, the Immortal Prince, who wishes to kill himself, but can't...

 

They are very much worth reading, even the Demon Child, which is her worst series.

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I second Luckers recommendation - the Second Sons trilogy was bloody good. (That's the only one of hers I've read as yet). And some other things to try reading: Tom Holt, Robert Rankin and Terry Pratchett (particularly Discworld) are all very funny writers of comic fantasy. Quite different from a lot of these suggestions, but a change is nice sometimes. Also, try Michael Moorcock for serious fantasy, and George MacDonald Fraser's "Flashman Papers", which are historical fiction, with no fantasy, but are very good. They focus on Harry Flashman, a coward who finds himself with a unwanted reputation for bravery, and who repeatedly has to escape from some of the most famous conflicts of the 19th century, such as the American civil war, and the charge of the Light Brigade.

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Everybody has their own reasons for enjoying the WoT series. For myself, a large part of it is the fact that RJ doesn’t just have his characters say something, or gesture just so, to "cast a spell"*. He actually goes into detail about what is happening, and why. To me, such is the mark of a great writer: to take something fantastic, and make it seem ordinary.

 

Apart from WoT, I can only think of one other series that dose this (granted, I haven't looked vary hard). The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher. If you have seen the series on the SciFi channel, know that it isn't anything like the books (as is usually the case). Centered on Chicago’s only professional practicing wizard, Harry Dresden, (you can find him in the white pages, under "wizard") who finds it his personal duty to save the good, normal citizens from the nasties that would eat them. So far, there are nine books, none very long, but Butcher is young yet. All in all, good read.

 

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Everybody has their own reasons for enjoying the WoT series. For myself, a large part of it is the fact that RJ doesn’t just have his characters say something, or gesture just so, to "cast a spell"*. He actually goes into detail about what is happening, and why. To me, such is the mark of a great writer: to take something fantastic, and make it seem ordinary.

 

George Lucas is a good example of a writer whose story got worse because he decided to explain the mystery.  Goodkind's explanation of magic is pathetic.  I'd rather have incredible mystery than ridiculous science anyday.  RJ writes magic well, but so does GRRM and I still have no idea how it works in Westeros.

 

Mystery is not a bad thing.  In fact, to me it's also what makes RJ's world so entertaining.  I get the way magic works, but prophecy and the uncertainty of how what's happening now affects (affected) the stories I grew up with...  Facsinating mystery.

 

Since I brought it up I'll actually say something about Carey's The Sundering series.  It's two books.  I want more.  It's set in the third age of a world that looks quite familiar if you squint a little (Middle-Earth).  This was done on purpose.  The heroes of her story (Taneros Blacksword, Ushahin Dreamspinner and Satoris Banewreaker, the Sunderer himself) are the guys we'd usually call villians.  This story is told from their perspective.  The entire war between "good" and "evil" is based on Satoris' refusal to remove his gift (quickening of the flesh, generation...  uhm...  sex) from mankind at his elder brother's request.  Fearing Satoris' weapon his elder brother sunders the land dividing the divine from the mortal world.  Elves and, ironically, men name Satoris evil and blame him for the sundering.  His allies are the beaten down, trodded upon, poor and ugly in the world.  His enemies all that is fair, but they are the ones that bring war to his doorstep.  His brother sets a prophecy in motion to bring about his downfall and his Gandalfesque champion begins to accomplish this prophecy as the story begins.  It is  a tragedy and a critique on the notions of good and evil and it is very well written.

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I've read the first book of the sundering as well as the first book of carey's other series. There both pretty good reads, kushiel is a little weird though. Is aSoIaF really that good? I was gonna read it but decided it would make my stack of books from the library too big to carry.

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aSoIaF is that good.

 

I haven't been able to spark any interest within myself for Carey's other series.  I feel dirty just looking at it :o

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and the reason i liek WoT is because it doesnt use the abused concept of Magic, the OP isnt magic it's simply a power source that if you have the ability and the right frame of mind you can manipulate through well explained and easy to understand means. RJ doesnt just say "rand tied him up with magic" it says "rand bound him with weaves of air"

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George Lucas is a good example of a writer whose story got worse because he decided to explain the mystery.  Goodkind's explanation of magic is pathetic.  I'd rather have incredible mystery than ridiculous science anyday.  RJ writes magic well, but so does GRRM and I still have no idea how it works in Westeros.

 

That is true. But sometimes, when not given a proper explanation, magic can seem like a plot device of unlimited power. I'd certainly like to know how throwing two leeches onto a fire would kill you-know-who and you-know-who #2 (ASoIaF).

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