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Why did Galad win the sword fight?


spigots or caudrens  

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  1. 1. spigots or caudrens

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ANSWER 1:  This was a test "under the Light" to see who was telling the truth.  The Light decided that Galad was in the right.  He could have been using a jack knife and he still would have won somehow.

 

ANSWER 2:  Galad was destined to win.  It was written into the lace of the pattern that he would win and take over the leadership of the Whitecloaks while wearing the heron-blade sword (just like his half brother who was destined to be the dragon reborn).  You can't change destiny.

 

ANSWER 3:  Either Galad had a very lucky day or Valda had a very unlucky day.  Stuff happens.  Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.  EDIT: or, maybe Galad has some of Mat's luck?  Or he might be ta'varen?

 

ANSWER 4:  Valda toyed with Galad just a little too long.  He knew that he was the superior swordsman with more experience.  Rather than get in there and get the job done, he enjoyed the match.  One short moment of inattention cost him his life.

 

ANSWER 5:  Maybe Galad was too pretty to die?  Maybe Valda was gay and got preoccupied daydreaming about knight things in the middle of the afternoon?  Maybe RJ has plans for Galad and he didn't need Valda any more like in the soap operas?  Or, any "other" reason you can think of.

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Of the available answers, I would be most inclined to #4.  However, Galad used that overconfidence deliberately, which, in my opinion, makes him the superior fighter, if not perhaps the technically more skilled swordsman.  Its a similar situation to the one in which Lan killed Ryne in New Spring.

 

So, sort of a combination of 4 and a little of 3 (without the "Mat's luck or ta'veren edit).

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Galad is Highly skilled, but Valda had more experience.

Galad purposely faught badly, If Galad had gone all out from the start, Valda would have taken him seriousely and probably gone for the killing strike first chance he got and won the fight. By under playing his ability Galad got Valda to extend the Duel and start toying with him. A fatal Mistake.

 

Like Raw said. Not more skilled with a blade, more skilled with a brain. 

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I would go with 4 as well, with a bit of 2, but by replacing destiny with RJ. He simply didn't want him off the stage.

This is a tangent, but to those who have read George R.R. Martin, would you have expected the same outcome had he wroten the scene?

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Guest cwestervelt

Galad won because Valda was overconfident which amounted to Valda being stupid.

 

Concerning George R. R. Martin, I have only read the first 3 books in Song of Fire and Ice.  From what I read, I don't think there would have been a different outcome to the scene because the scene wouldn't have occurred.  The way he writes, both Galad and Valda would have been dead long before then.  Quite frankly, it is rather annoying when a story keeps changing main characters because the author wants a body count.

 

Edit:  Fixed typo

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I would have to go with number 4. Valda was definitely overconfident and Galad used that against him. But there was a bit of luck involved to.

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Concerning George R. R. Martin, I have only read the first 3 books in Song of Fire and Ice.  From what I read, I don't think there would have been a different outcome to the scene because the scene wouldn't have occurred.  The way he writes, both Galad and Valda would have been dead long before then.  Quite frankly, it is rather annoying when a story keeps changing main characters because the author wants a body count.

 

Edit:  Fixed typo

 

    That´s simply realism for you. If one goes into mortal situations often enough one is bound to draw the short straw eventually.

    Also George R. R. Martin is at least honest in his accolades. Unlike Star Wars where the Imperial Starship troopers are supposed to be the most skilled soldiers in the galaxy but get thwopped by a couple of teens and teddy bears. Or even in WoT, where a couple of reckless teens, one a wilder who cannot channel properly due to a block, are supposed to convincingly resoundly defeat members  from the top echelon of skilled channelers from the Age of Legends,....please,...

    At least with Martin, even though you might find it annoying, if the main character faces someone described as one of the best swordsman on the continent or most skilled in this or that,...more likely than not the main character is going to be butch food. Same if Martin had wrote WoT, Nynaeve would have long ago been killed by Moghedien, etc.. etc..

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Guest cwestervelt

 

 

Concerning George R. R. Martin, I have only read the first 3 books in Song of Fire and Ice.  From what I read, I don't think there would have been a different outcome to the scene because the scene wouldn't have occurred.  The way he writes, both Galad and Valda would have been dead long before then.  Quite frankly, it is rather annoying when a story keeps changing main characters because the author wants a body count.

 

Edit:  Fixed typo

 

     That´s simply realism for you. If one goes into mortal situations often enough one is bound to draw the short straw eventually.

     Also George R. R. Martin is at least honest in his accolades. Unlike Star Wars where the Imperial Starship troopers are supposed to be the most skilled soldiers in the galaxy but get thwopped by a couple of teens and teddy bears. Or even in WoT, where a couple of reckless teens, one a wilder who cannot channel properly due to a block, are supposed to convincingly resoundly defeat members  from the top echelon of skilled channelers from the Age of Legends,....please,...

     At least with Martin, even though you might find it annoying, if the main character faces someone described as one of the best swordsman on the continent or most skilled in this or that,...more likely than not the main character is going to be butch food. Same if Martin had wrote WoT, Nynaeve would have long ago been killed by Moghedien, etc.. etc..

 

With Martin, it wouldn't be so bad if it did something for the plot of his story.  Unfortunately, all it does is result in a very disconnected book.  It just tends to come off as either him having a morbid streak or a complete lack of planning.  The type of book where a character is killed off because the author didn't know what else to do with him.  Stories need central characters, and while it is often acceptable to eliminate one or two along the way, he tends to make his central characters the equivalent of the unnamed away team member.  The person you know is going to die or have some other tragic fate in store for them.  The rate of mortality/maiming/what have you among is main characters is no more realistic than a lack of them.

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My tally doesn't show any votes for answer 1 yet...doesn't anyone think that the Creator was watching over the proceedings?

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Guest cwestervelt

If the Creator was watching over the proceedings, theoretically Galad would now be dead.  Eamon Valda was innocent of the charge of murder that Galad brought against him.

 

That's a big flaw with the whole trial by combat idea.  It has a long and glorious tradition, but it isn't very accurate.  You lose and you are guilty of a crime that may not, and in in Valda's case, did not happen.

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galad's fight was for the honor of his mother (morgase was his mother in his mind) who wouldnt give 200% for that cause more than anything else?

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Galad won because Valda was overconfident which amounted to Valda being stupid.

 

Concerning George R. R. Martin, I have only read the first 3 books in Song of Fire and Ice.  From what I read, I don't think there would have been a different outcome to the scene because the scene wouldn't have occurred.  The way he writes, both Galad and Valda would have been dead long before then.  Quite frankly, it is rather annoying when a story keeps changing main characters because the author wants a body count.

 

Edit:  Fixed typo

 

That is certainly true. I got so pissed when Robb got killed... And I had been wondering why we had not seen any PoVs of him lately, then all of the sudden...And then there was Ned, and that bastard Gregor Clegane killing the Viper of Dorne (that scene was outrageous injustice), and then Catelyn basically turned into a banshee, and Sansa, being an idiot girl, actually betrayed her family, and Syrio Forel got killed too (presumably), and Arya made some stupid, selfish wishes to the faceless man Jacquen H'ghar, when she could've gotten Joff, Tywin, and Gregor all three killed with good wishes...

 

Halfway through Storm of Swords, I just about quit the series. I mean, come on, who is there left to root for? And the main bad guys have pretty much died, except I dont feel like they got a cruel enough death...

 

Anyways, I believe that what Darkness was trying to say is that George Martin would've made sure the bad guy won, and it would have nothing to do with the Light actually siding with the person who was just.

 

As for the Creator, he always observes, but never interferes (at least I assume, GrandpaG) See EotW, when a voice says "I WILL TAKE NO PART."

 

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That is certainly true. I got so pissed when Robb got killed... And I had been wondering why we had not seen any PoVs of him lately, then all of the sudden...And then there was Ned, and that bastard Gregor Clegane killing the Viper of Dorne (that scene was outrageous injustice), and then Catelyn basically turned into a banshee, and Sansa, being an idiot girl, actually betrayed her family, and Syrio Forel got killed too (presumably), and Arya made some stupid, selfish wishes to the faceless man Jacquen H'ghar, when she could've gotten Joff, Tywin, and Gregor all three killed with good wishes...

 

I was literally crushed as well when Robb died. I mean, I had to read the whole chapter two or three times for it to sink in that he was gone. To get attached to a story I have to be attached to the characters; how can that be when they don't last even for a book?

 

With Martin, it wouldn't be so bad if it did something for the plot of his story.  Unfortunately, all it does is result in a very disconnected book.  It just tends to come off as either him having a morbid streak or a complete lack of planning.  The type of book where a character is killed off because the author didn't know what else to do with him.  Stories need central characters, and while it is often acceptable to eliminate one or two along the way, he tends to make his central characters the equivalent of the unnamed away team member.  The person you know is going to die or have some other tragic fate in store for them.  The rate of mortality/maiming/what have you among is main characters is no more realistic than a lack of them.

 

I agree with cwestervelt; if Martin's style was that realistic, then a whole lot more of other authors would be doing it.

 

I don't see the Creator intervening, he/she/it hardly seems concerned with the Dragon Reborn's fate, much less that of an arguably minor character (in that Galad is not indispensable (sp)).

Valda was a fool, too sure of himself, and confident Galad was just an upstart. Logically speaking, his experience should have handed him Galad's head. It's a bit like the High Lord Turak underestimating Rand.

 

 

 

 

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Wow... I can't believe so many people are dissing George Martin. I, personally, enjoy his realism. As for Robb's death, he had it coming, you all know it. I, personally, think that the Viper of Dorne lost on purpose, so Clegane could have a ridicoulously painful death. Arya, I mean, shes like an eight year old (probably not right but still young) I wouldn't think about killing anyone but those who were cruel to me if I was that young. Sansa, well yes, she is stupid, but shes like thirteen or twelve or something and has lived a pampered life. She finally realized Joff isn't the prince of her dreams. Syrio isn't neccesarily dead, though he probably is. I like the realistic view of things. Rand's fight with Turak was exciting but what were the chances under the light of Turak losing to a Farmboy whos had a months education with a sword?

 

As for the actual topic, Galad was insanely under-estimated by Valda and thats that.

 

P.S. Stop dissing George Martin

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Wow... I can't believe so many people are dissing George Martin. I, personally, enjoy his realism. As for Robb's death, he had it coming, you all know it. I, personally, think that the Viper of Dorne lost on purpose, so Clegane could have a ridicoulously painful death. Arya, I mean, shes like an eight year old (probably not right but still young) I wouldn't think about killing anyone but those who were cruel to me if I was that young. Sansa, well yes, she is stupid, but shes like thirteen or twelve or something and has lived a pampered life. She finally realized Joff isn't the prince of her dreams. Syrio isn't neccesarily dead, though he probably is. I like the realistic view of things. Rand's fight with Turak was exciting but what were the chances under the light of Turak losing to a Farmboy whos had a months education with a sword?

 

As for the actual topic, Galad was insanely under-estimated by Valda and thats that.

 

P.S. Stop dissing George Martin

What were the chances of Rand winning? Ta'veren twist chance, remember, so for him, very good. And the Red Viper used the poison as a contingency plan - he was not the self-sacrificinf sort, he was the vengeful sort. He wanted to make sure that even if he lost, he still won, but he didn't set out to win. But you're right on the stop dissing GRRM front, he doesn't kill that many people, and all the ones he does kill are killed for a reason. Even Ned, Robb, and all the other guys you liked. As for whether the fight would go a different way if Martin wrote it, it depends on whether Martin had further use for Galad, or Valda. If he had further use for one but not the other then that one would win, if he had no further use for either, then like as not both would die, and if he had a use for both the fight would be rained off and called a draw. As it is, Galad won because RJ had a use for him still, but for the in universe reason, Valda underestimated Galad, who also got lucky to an extent.
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Even excluding the fact that Rand was ta'veren, Turak was Seanchan.

 

The Seanchan empire is consolidated, and I would be willing to bet that Turak had never dueled to the death before. In fact, being nobility, he probably only won matches during practice because the other people had to lose.

 

Turak understimated Rand, for one. And two, even though Turak thought that the people of the westlands awarded the title of blademaster easily, it appears that it was the Seanchan who award the title easily. And thirdly, he was ta'veren.

 

All in all, I do think that makes sense.

 

 

And by the way, Im not "dissing" George Martin. I love his books. But I have a hard time with them, because I get emotionally attached to the characters, to the point where I feel like I am actually in their shoes. The scene with Clegane was barbaric. George led us through excitement, as I thought at first viper was going to win, and then I felt as sudden shock, and depression beyond belief, as Clegane won. It has gotten to the point, for me, that as things are, I don't see how the books could end on a good note. I'm actually rooting for the "others."

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That is certainly true. I got so pissed when Robb got killed... And I had been wondering why we had not seen any PoVs of him lately, then all of the sudden...And then there was Ned, and that bastard Gregor Clegane killing the Viper of Dorne (that scene was outrageous injustice), and then Catelyn basically turned into a banshee, and Sansa, being an idiot girl, actually betrayed her family, and Syrio Forel got killed too (presumably), and Arya made some stupid, selfish wishes to the faceless man Jacquen H'ghar, when she could've gotten Joff, Tywin, and Gregor all three killed with good wishes...

 

I was literally crushed as well when Robb died. I mean, I had to read the whole chapter two or three times for it to sink in that he was gone. To get attached to a story I have to be attached to the characters; how can that be when they don't last even for a book?

 

With Martin, it wouldn't be so bad if it did something for the plot of his story.  Unfortunately, all it does is result in a very disconnected book.  It just tends to come off as either him having a morbid streak or a complete lack of planning.  The type of book where a character is killed off because the author didn't know what else to do with him.  Stories need central characters, and while it is often acceptable to eliminate one or two along the way, he tends to make his central characters the equivalent of the unnamed away team member.  The person you know is going to die or have some other tragic fate in store for them.  The rate of mortality/maiming/what have you among is main characters is no more realistic than a lack of them.

 

I agree with cwestervelt; if Martin's style was that realistic, then a whole lot more of other authors would be doing it.

 

I don't see the Creator intervening, he/she/it hardly seems concerned with the Dragon Reborn's fate, much less that of an arguably minor character (in that Galad is not indispensable (sp)).

Valda was a fool, too sure of himself, and confident Galad was just an upstart. Logically speaking, his experience should have handed him Galad's head. It's a bit like the High Lord Turak underestimating Rand.

 

      Robb died because he was too trusting in a time of war. He trusted the wrong people and got murdered for it.

 

      As for the main characters dying. So far I see Daenarys, Arya, Tyrion, Kingslayer and Jon Snow both seem to have survived from book 1 and are doing strong. As for Robb dying that probably had to do with making room for Jon. You have your main characters right there.

      From what we know we can deduce that Jon is the child of Rhaegar and Eddard´s sister Lyanna. Which would explain Jon´s strong attachment to Jon. Being the only thing he has left of his beloved sister. It also explains how he tries to shroud anything to do with Jon in mystery. Seeing that if it came out that he was Rhaegar´s son, I have no doubt Robert Baraetheon would have sent assassins before nightfall. Probably the only thing that kept Jon alive and his secret clear so long that by features he resembles the Stark´s much more than his maternal side and Eddard´s close watch over him. Remember Catelyn jealously saying in book 1 that Jon looked more like Eddard than any of their trueborn children.

    The way I see things is that eventually Jon will marry Danaerys to consolidate the hold of Westeros under Targaryen rule again before the Others´s start their invasion.

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You forgot that the Kingslayer is crippled, with his hand cut off.

Unfortunately enough, it seemed that this happened just as he began to become a good guy. There's Martin for you.

 

 

And if Dany is a good guy, let's not forget she basically was forced to have sex with a Dothraki, when she was still at a very innocent age (12 or 14, I can't remember). And that kind of makes me mad, too, because she was taken advantage of.

 

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    You make the cardinal mistake of comparing George R R Martin´s world to today´s Victorianesque times. If we compare technologies, when we were at the time of setting with Knights, etc.. you were considered an adult as soon as you had your first period. Which biologically is actually true. Same as men in the those times were considered men at around 13,14. Meaning a 14 year old could also conscript to become a man at arms, now that he reached his maturity.

    It is only since the 18th century and the conservative revolution of the Victorian period that the age of maturity has been sky rocketed to the age of 18, which biologically is very questionable. Since you become sexually active around the median age of 14, which is normally indicative of reaching maturity.

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Maybe bilogically mature, yeah. But mentally mature? I remember being 14, and I have to tell you, I did a lot of stupid things I shouldn't have. And now I know better, because I have matured.

 

Besides, the main thing I was saying is that she wouldn't have slept with Khal Drogo, but for Viserys promising that she would "Wake the dragon" if she didn't.

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Viserys now there was a death I was glad we didn't have to long wait for. He was one of the most annoying characters in the books to me anyways. Him and Sansa.

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