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Bob T Dwarf

The Eelfinn

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"Courage to strengthen, fire to blind, music to daze, iron to bind."

 

Why those three? What is it about fire or light, music, and iron that worry the Finns enough to make them prohibited items in Finnland?

 

My guesses, and feel free to poke holes in them, are:

 

Their vision consists primarily of infrared. Most of what they see is heat images. Any fire or other source of infrared would therefore blind them.

 

Their hearing extends either into infrasound or ultrasound or maybe even both. Music with it's harmonics could stun or daze them.

 

I don't have a theory or even a guess about how the presence of iron might bind them in some way. Please, somebody supply one.

 

Infrared vision might explain the whole thing with Mat's eye. Either he offers it, or they demand it in payment for Moiraine because somehow a human eye will allow one or more of them to see things in a different part of the spectrum that their own eyes cannot.

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they're based on the people of the sihes or something in irish myth they're like fairys in tir na og and iron is harmfull to them. not sure about the rest.

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Yes, I think the fact that iron is a paramagnetic element could be at play here. Perhaps their brains are composed of neurons that use elements other than Na+, Cl- and K+ to fire action potentials. Perhaps their brains use paramagnetic, ionized elements, which may seem unlikely in our world, but hey, this is an alternate universe. Then, the presence of a lrage amount of iron could in fact cause a magnetic interaction, which would shut down the functioning of their higher cognitive function. Or, maybe it's just something Jordan just tossed in there cause he came up with a cool little verse and it sounded neat to him.

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Guest Majsju

As Loki said, they are based on the faeries in Irish mythology. The faeries are defenceless to iron for some reason. Music enchants them, and forces them to dance. And fire...Don't remember exactly why fire is harmful to them.

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Guest Egwene

Funny... having been away for a few days and catching up on one of the other threads, I was about to post this very topic!! :shock:

 

Bob, what about the bracelet that Moiraine took with her through the door she and Moiraine dissapeared through? I feel that it could be some sort of light device.

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Guest Majsju
Funny... having been away for a few days and catching up on one of the other threads' date=' I was about to post this very topic!! :shock:

 

Bob, what about the bracelet that Moiraine took with her through the door she and Moiraine dissapeared through? I feel that it could be some sort of light device.[/quote']

 

You mean the bracelet she snatched from Lanfear? That was an angreal.

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When Rand went through the doorway in Tear he pull his sword of fire on the Finns who were trying to make him leave. I guess the fire is so bright it blinds them. Like in the poem "fire to blind."

 

duh

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In many ancient societies fire, music and worked iron were held to be things of high knowledge, and in the mythologies of those societies these things were used to bar the way of supernatural creatures, and other fears of the night. In particular this was evident in many irish legends, to gaurd against creatures very like in discription to the eelfin and aelfinn. And we all know that rj likes to dip into mythology in his writing

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Guest Egwene

Majsju, Moiraine had actually previously placed the bracelet next to the doorframe, so I am guessing it was part of her vision from Rhuidean. Which leads me to believe there is more to it....

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Guest Majsju
Majsju' date=' Moiraine had actually previously placed the bracelet next to the doorframe, so I am guessing it was part of her vision from Rhuidean. Which leads me to believe there is more to it....[/quote']

 

No, it is just an angreal. But there's most likely some reason for her to put it there. Like making it possible for her to snatch it from Lanfear as they tumble through the door...

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Guest Egwene

maybe angreal as in ter'angreal or angreal in this case?

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Guest Majsju

no, angreal as in angreal, you even see it used as such in that scene.

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cmon guys iron to bind. could iron bind you? yes! handcuffs! or you could poke them with i nice pointy peice of iron in the head that would bind them to death. but im thinking they will have usm kind of iron chain, they will have a bunch of torches and thom will play his flute while runnin round lookin for moiraine.

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But there's most likely some reason for her to put it there. Like making it possible for her to snatch it from Lanfear as they tumble through the door...

 

Or maybe it was to make Lanfear climb up on the wagon with the doorway to get it, lining her up in front of said doorway for Moiraine's tackle.

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There is a reference to some sort of ancient pact though, how does that tie into the prohibited items.

 

I don't like to think that the prohibited items are prohibited for so mundane a reason as they see in Infrared and are thus blinded by it or their neurons are messed up by Iron. I really doubt that is what was on RJ's mind when he made the Finnlanders.

 

I like to think of it in a more mythological or folk lorish sense. Iron has been acknowledge by fantasy and mythology as having properties harmful to fey creatures, music can have a mystical power all it's own. Fire (light) is the one that confuses me, and i have no sources to draw from in folk lore and myth.

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Funny... having been away for a few days and catching up on one of the other threads' date=' I was about to post this very topic!! :shock:

 

Bob, what about the bracelet that Moiraine took with her through the door she and Moiraine dissapeared through? I feel that it could be some sort of light device.[/quote']

 

No, Matt and Thom have the illuminator Matches, they will use that against the Finns. Remember the only way to win at Snakes and Foxes is to cheat.

They will use all the things the Finns hate, to cheat them out of Morainne.

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No' date=' Matt and Thom have the illuminator Matches, they will use that against the Finns. Remember the only way to win at Snakes and Foxes is to cheat.

They will use all the things the Finns hate, to cheat them out of Morainne.[/quote']

 

 

mat naver tried playing sience he got his luck,only olver tossed the dice, maybe he can win..

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mat naver tried playing sience he got his luck' date='only olver tossed the dice, maybe he can win..[/quote']

 

They've said in the books that you cannot win the game if you play by the rules. Even Matt's luck wouldn't win it for him. That's why children love the game and adults don't, once kids get old enough to realize you can't win without cheating (breaking the rules) then they stop playing it.

 

That's how it will work with the Finns too, you can't out think them, or beat them fairly, you have to break their rules.

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This may be incredibly stupid but could the items be symbolic of the 3 people needed to save Moiraine?

ie: Thom is representative of the music,

Matt the fire and Jain the iron? of course I haven't done enough snooping to be able to back up any of the associations but Thom to music seems to make sense. So instead of rules it's actually a prophecy so old it's only remembered in a childrens game? Just spitballing... destroy at your leisure :)

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The touch of cold iron was said to be anathametical to magic. It hurt seighlie forces and was poisoness to unseighlie forces. Directly in mythology it usually relates to the grounding of these creatures in earth, as did many of the othe wards against such creatures (rowan, oak, and other woods. Thistle. so on). Also it has ties in that the working of iron, the creation of music, and the creation of fire, where all held to be the things that raised humans above animals. Blacksmiths and bards were quite often featured mesmerising or binding such forces.

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Luckers, I must say, has a very logical and straight- forward way of adressing things. I have read several books that have iron as a force that inhibits or destroys magic. The Once and Future King is notable. In many lesser fantasies I have seen the same thing. I do not, however, have much expirience with primary sources in this area, so If Luckers could give some references, I would much appreciate it. :)

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any on ever notice how dumb mat is? i mena hes my fav character hands donw, but hes dumb. how could u NOT notice that the wrds in the game are EXACTLY what the talk about upon entering the friggin doorway? how dumb do u get....

 

 

alos for those who dont get fire: fire brings it all. fire forges the instruments u need, it illuminates darkness and its always keppt unsaviory creatures at bay. and HELLO u can burn crap wiht fire. burn some finns. cook em.

 

thatd be an aweosm line, thom jain and mat step through and thoms all vengeful and shitakeemushroom and goes "lets cook these bitc.hes"

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