The Cancellation of Wheel Of Time need your support.

[Frykka]

On 9/6/2024 at 3:05 AM, books of Robert Jordan said:

 

Zero fidelity is the origin of all, see WOT, ROP etc. No wonder that the ratings of the "modernized" ROP is in the basement too.

 

 

There's 11 books (and NS), but an adaptation should end with LOC, and with proper writers 1 book = 1 season is very much possible. With proper writers.

There are 14 books and some of the best parts are even in books 8-11...  I read slow and have bad eyes so have them all on Audible now.  Lest you forget how epic the moment in book 11, " Matrim Cauthon is my husband, Matrim Cauthon is my husband, Bloody Matrim Cauthon is my husband".  🙂

 

[Jaccsen]

Why should I watch and support something I do not like? By not watching it, I am showing that I do not support the direction or the writing.

 

We will never get anything better if we just accept rubbish.

[Samt]

On 9/7/2024 at 7:30 PM, CallMeShmae said:

Here's the thing: I have a serious love-hate relationship with the show. There is a LOT that makes me scream at the tv while watching it (one big thing as I'm doing a rewatch of season 2 is how badly they botch Egwene's arc with the Seanchan — literally insane to subvert the entire point of that in the book, which is that she was broken, just so Rafe could indulge his favorite character being a boss-ass beach for the 1000th time. And that after the episode where Renna was breaking her down was really, really excellent), so what I mean to say is I don't think the writers are doing incredible work or anything. 

HOWEVER, there is a LOT more going on in the Wheel of Time than in LotR. Like, a LOT more. You just aren't getting the chance in these cramped-ass 8 episode seasons to properly develop these characters, sadly. 

That being said, there's also the reality on the ground that they basically must develop stories for Moiraine and Lan, since Ms. Pike has top billing and is nowhere in most of The Great Hunt. That being said, I thought her stuff was all pretty good as far as new stories go. Lan's with Alanna and the warders, less so. But I digress. The point is they really are stretched very thin, indeed. 

And it sucks because there have been some really excellent moments, I think. In Se1, the stuff where they're all in Tar Valon and Nynaeve is like "Screw Moiraine and the tower, we're Two Rivers Folk, we've got this" was really, really excellent. Little things like that. 

Great points.  

 

On the subject of Ms. Pike, I disagree with this line of thinking.  If her presence improves the story, great.  But if they "must" develop stories to keep her in, that points to a systemic problem with the way Amazon is developing the series.  The buck has to stop somewhere.  Someone had the ability to sideline Moiraine for season 2.  If not making this decision made the series worse, someone is accountable for that.  Rosamund Pike is not an act of God.  

 

In regards to LOTR, my point was to compare the quality of the adaptations as standalone works without considering the source material.  I long ago stopped trying to see the threads tying Amazon WOT to the books and have just considered if it is good TV in its own right.  And good TV has good characters.  The Amazon WoT characters feel shoddy next to the PJ LOTR characters and I am suggesting that is true for people not familiar with either source material.  Lots of people that had never read LOTR were moved by the fellowship characters.  That just isn't happening for Amazon of time.   

[Sabio]

Rafe admitted that they couldn't sideline Moraine and Lan for a whole season, so they jumped into Lan and Moraine backstory (hence the she couldn't channel angle so they could reflect on things).  No actor will just sit around for a year waiting for season three, and you aren't going to pay them for doing nothing.  What if they had taken other jobs, now come season three you need new actors.  They decided to focus on their relationship.

[Samt]

2 hours ago, Sabio said:

Rafe admitted that they couldn't sideline Moraine and Lan for a whole season, so they jumped into Lan and Moraine backstory (hence the she couldn't channel angle so they could reflect on things).  No actor will just sit around for a year waiting for season three, and you aren't going to pay them for doing nothing.  What if they had taken other jobs, now come season three you need new actors.  They decided to focus on their relationship.

They could have paid her for doing nothing.  They could have paid her to take a small role in the season. Also, she did take other work.   This is just the show creators and Amazon execs backing themselves into a corner and then expecting sympathy when they fail to find a good way out.  I'll repeat, Rosamund Pike is not an act of God.  Someone has to take responsibility for the decision to leave her as the main character in S2.  She didn't just happen.  

[Sabio]

No one is going to pay an actor to do nothing for most the season.  When have they asked for sympathy? They came right out and said they needed to giver Lan and Moraine more to do in season 2.  Look at the time between the end of season 1 and the beginning of production for season 3, neither actor is going to sit about twiddling their thumbs, the series is screwed if they decide during that time to go to another project, or you end up paying them to do nothing for a few years.

[Figs and Mice]

I understand the difficulty around condensing 14 books into ? number of seasons - and a major actor having  to disappear temporarily was always going to be a problem (but will she disappear anyway for rather a lot of  time or are we losing the entire Lanfear/Finn/Tower of Ghenjei thing? Have to presume we are ☹️) Pardon the digression : 

 

Would it not have made more sense to move a bit quicker and incorporate more of book three into the second season so Moraine could run around with Perrin following Rand after he takes off towards Tear ?  They really have only done two books in two seasons and that rate simply isn't sustainable. At the rate they are going it is obvious vast sections of the story will have to be cut so have to wonder if they really have a coherent plan as to how many seasons will be realistic ... so I guess we just have to accept that the finished produce will look less and less like WOT and judge it for whatever it is as a TV series. 

 

Which I hope will be an improvement on what they've dished up so far. But not holding my breath...

[Figs and Mice]

...and after reflecting on my (rather casually thrown out) thoughts above , I have to concede that there was really no practical way for the show to do anything like that. From where they were after season one , there was no time (even if they had cut a lot of the filler) to proceed further with the story than they did. This is partly because of the first season timing but also because they seem to want to finish each season with a "book climax". Trouble is if they keep that up we will be about six seasons down before we get to the parts that really ought to be seriously condensed ! 

 

Will leave it to them to sort out 🙂

[Samt]

9 hours ago, Sabio said:

No one is going to pay an actor to do nothing for most the season.  When have they asked for sympathy? They came right out and said they needed to giver Lan and Moraine more to do in season 2.  Look at the time between the end of season 1 and the beginning of production for season 3, neither actor is going to sit about twiddling their thumbs, the series is screwed if they decide during that time to go to another project, or you end up paying them to do nothing for a few years.

First off, as I said, Rosamund Pike and Daniel Henney literally did other projects in this time period.  Putting them in season 2 didn't somehow keep them locked down. And second, paying people to be available at a later date or on call is a normal thing to do in many industries. I can't believe that no one in the screen acting negotiation field has thought of it.  

 

Call it sympathy or whatever you want.  The point is, it's an excuse for badly managing the development and contracts.  If Moiraine and Lan were good for season 2, no excuse would be needed.  If they weren't, they should have been sidelined and no excuse is good enough for not doing it.  

[Kaleb]

Moiraine and Lan's storylines in S2 set up the Tower politics, the Black Ajah and Elaida's coup far better than any other main characters could have. Simple as that. Without their plots, the writers would have had to find some reason to elevate Verin, Liandrin, Alanna, Siuan and maybe others to main character status, or just have us doing constant check-ins with minor characters for reasons that wouldn't be clear until S3, which according to reports is very likely to begin with the BA attack and escape.

[Samt]

1 hour ago, Kaleb said:

Moiraine and Lan's storylines in S2 set up the Tower politics, the Black Ajah and Elaida's coup far better than any other main characters could have. Simple as that. Without their plots, the writers would have had to find some reason to elevate Verin, Liandrin, Alanna, Siuan and maybe others to main character status, or just have us doing constant check-ins with minor characters for reasons that wouldn't be clear until S3, which according to reports is very likely to begin with the BA attack and escape.

Sure.  If you think that it was a good inclusion for the show, that's fine.  Then there is no reason to give excuses about "needing to create something for Lan and Moiraine to do."  

[CleverParasite]

On 7/31/2024 at 2:33 AM, Mailman said:

I feel the opposite the sooner that they get this terrible show cancelled the greater the chance that someone with true skill and a desire to bring the books to life on the screen could emerge. The longer this lame duck drags on the smaller the chance.

 

This show is not better than nothing at all, nothing would have been far preferable.

 

I think we will get a season 4 but it will be a wrap up season. Possibly even only 5 or 6 episodes.

You know, I typically don't reply to posts like this from folks like yourself, just ignore and move on, because I know that self-important single opinion is to you people the golden truth of ages applicable to everyone, and it's just meaningless to respond.  Most importantly, meaningless to me, because i get nothing from engaging in discussion someone with nothing to say.   I break with my norms here this once, because this is a response just as applicable to a hundred other posts from all you who I see in my mind's eye as the Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons, remember him?  Anyone understanding that reference is snickering now, and well deserved.  Anyway, this is my reply:
*sigh...* why do you have to be such a painful drag?  It's great you love the books so well, and if you hate or love or feel nothing for the tv series, can't you just do us who love the show a solid, and support the continuation of it?  Instead of hoping for its swift cancellation, ideally even mid-filming season 3, and everyone who wants to see it be damned, for YOU have declared it inferior.  Who dares not abide by your wise and empirically true condemnation? Right?  Jeez...would it hurt you to just be a pal to other fans of this series - the books AND the tv show alike?  Or are you so affronted by people having opinions different from yours that you don't realize it makes you a really, just awful person who's so selfish you haven't ever known that's who you are, and by your own choice no less?  
Just...do the minimum to support fellow fans and people of shared interests: write agreeable posts online.  Not too much for you...is it?

[Janet Layton]

I want the series to continue. 
 

Season 2 & 3 are an improvement on Season 1.  
 

if people didn’t like them, blame Amazon for not choosing better writers and directors.  These stories are epics so should have someone like Peter Jackson.

 

Hopefully seasons will improve.

 

For the so-called cheesy acting, I thought they did a great job, especially the youngsters who have not anything so big before.

 

[Samt]

13 hours ago, Janet Layton said:

 

Season 2 & 3 are an improvement on Season 1.  
 

 

 

You had advanced viewing?

[Mailman]

On 9/12/2024 at 11:16 AM, CleverParasite said:

You know, I typically don't reply to posts like this from folks like yourself, just ignore and move on, because I know that self-important single opinion is to you people the golden truth of ages applicable to everyone, and it's just meaningless to respond.  Most importantly, meaningless to me, because i get nothing from engaging in discussion someone with nothing to say.   I break with my norms here this once, because this is a response just as applicable to a hundred other posts from all you who I see in my mind's eye as the Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons, remember him?  Anyone understanding that reference is snickering now, and well deserved.  Anyway, this is my reply:
*sigh...* why do you have to be such a painful drag?  It's great you love the books so well, and if you hate or love or feel nothing for the tv series, can't you just do us who love the show a solid, and support the continuation of it?  Instead of hoping for its swift cancellation, ideally even mid-filming season 3, and everyone who wants to see it be damned, for YOU have declared it inferior.  Who dares not abide by your wise and empirically true condemnation? Right?  Jeez...would it hurt you to just be a pal to other fans of this series - the books AND the tv show alike?  Or are you so affronted by people having opinions different from yours that you don't realize it makes you a really, just awful person who's so selfish you haven't ever known that's who you are, and by your own choice no less?  
Just...do the minimum to support fellow fans and people of shared interests: write agreeable posts online.  Not too much for you...is it?

I'm not going to dignify much of this post with a response as it is typical from folks like you.

 

This is a forum meaning an exchange of ideas.

 

Really weak name calling.

[HeronMarkedBlade]

On 9/11/2024 at 10:16 PM, CleverParasite said:

You know, I typically don't reply to posts like this from folks like yourself, just ignore and move on, because I know that self-important single opinion is to you people the golden truth of ages applicable to everyone, and it's just meaningless to respond.  Most importantly, meaningless to me, because i get nothing from engaging in discussion someone with nothing to say.   I break with my norms here this once, because this is a response just as applicable to a hundred other posts from all you who I see in my mind's eye as the Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons, remember him?  Anyone understanding that reference is snickering now, and well deserved.  Anyway, this is my reply:
*sigh...* why do you have to be such a painful drag?  It's great you love the books so well, and if you hate or love or feel nothing for the tv series, can't you just do us who love the show a solid, and support the continuation of it?  Instead of hoping for its swift cancellation, ideally even mid-filming season 3, and everyone who wants to see it be damned, for YOU have declared it inferior.  Who dares not abide by your wise and empirically true condemnation? Right?  Jeez...would it hurt you to just be a pal to other fans of this series - the books AND the tv show alike?  Or are you so affronted by people having opinions different from yours that you don't realize it makes you a really, just awful person who's so selfish you haven't ever known that's who you are, and by your own choice no less?  
Just...do the minimum to support fellow fans and people of shared interests: write agreeable posts online.  Not too much for you...is it?

It’s your right to feel this way, it’s our right to disagree. Some of us think this is an abomination of a series that we’ve loved for decades. 
 

Rafe Judkins is like a serial killer who skinned and tanned the Wheel of Time before draping it over the furniture and playing with it, pretending it’s the real thing. It took me two and a quarter episodes to stop watching. If you told me 30 years ago I would drop off a WoT series a third of the way through the first season, I’d have asked for a hit of whatever you’re smoking, but here we are.

 

So no, we won’t say nice things about it. Or watch or support it. 
 

nobody thinks they could put 14 books directly on the screen, that doesn’t mean we should be putting up with them butchering the source material from the VERY FIRST SCENE! Immediately, they completely make a mockery of the world building. What did Elaida say? “You make the power dirty when you channel it!”? Paraphrasing, but it the damn first scene they completely destroy all cannon related to the source. Saidin makes him filthy, not the other way around. Elaida, of all people, damn well knows this! She’s one of the most influential Aes Sedai in the world!

 

They skip the Prologue! One of the most important scenes in the book! 

 

perrin kills his wife! FFS, Perrin doesn’t have a wife!

 

the main characters are reduced to barely background actors. Basically completely useless, all in service to some weird girl power shit in a series that has always been full of strong, powerful women! 
 

You like it, that’s fine. Enjoy it until it’s cancelled, but many of us won’t be sad to see it go. Rafe was the wrong person to lead this show, it’s clear he doesn’t actually care about the source material, he just wanted a famous skin to play in, fans be damned. 
 

Ratings show through too.

 

Season 1- Episodes 1 to 3. A billion minutes watch time. The first three episodes alone!

 

Season 2- All Episodes. 515 million minutes watched. 
 

They were way too quick to green light season 3 based off season 1 ratings, but the show was so bad it couldn’t keep viewers new or old. 

 

 

Edited September 16 by HeronMarkedBlade

[Frykka]

On 9/9/2024 at 9:30 AM, Jaccsen said:

Why should I watch and support something I do not like? By not watching it, I am showing that I do not support the direction or the writing.

 

We will never get anything better if we just accept rubbish.

Because you will NEVER get a remake that is better if you don't show support.  The 1980s Dune movie was ok, it got a new update because we all watched the old one a hundred times.

[Frykka]

3 hours ago, HeronMarkedBlade said:

It’s your right to feel this way, it’s our right to disagree. Some of us think this is an abomination of a series that we’ve loved for decades. 
 

Rafe Judkins is like a serial killer who skinned and tanned the Wheel of Time before draping it over the furniture and playing with it, pretending it’s the real thing. It took me two and a quarter episodes to stop watching. If you told me 30 years ago I would drop off a WoT series a third of the way through the first season, I’d have asked for a hit of whatever you’re smoking, but here we are.

 

So no, we won’t say nice things about it. Or watch or support it. 
 

nobody thinks they could put 14 books directly on the screen, that doesn’t mean we should be putting up with them butchering the source material from the VERY FIRST SCENE! Immediately, they completely make a mockery of the world building. What did Elaida say? “You make the power dirty when you channel it!”? Paraphrasing, but it the damn first scene they completely destroy all cannon related to the source. Saidin makes him filthy, not the other way around. Elaida, of all people, damn well knows this! She’s one of the most influential Aes Sedai in the world!

 

They skip the Prologue! One of the most important scenes in the book! 

 

perrin kills his wife! FFS, Perrin doesn’t have a wife!

 

the main characters are reduced to barely background actors. Basically completely useless, all in service to some weird girl power shit in a series that has always been full of strong, powerful women! 
 

You like it, that’s fine. Enjoy it until it’s cancelled, but many of us won’t be sad to see it go. Rafe was the wrong person to lead this show, it’s clear he doesn’t actually care about the source material, he just wanted a famous skin to play in, fans be damned. 
 

Ratings show through too.

 

Season 1- Episodes 1 to 3. A billion minutes watch time. The first three episodes alone!

 

Season 2- All Episodes. 515 million minutes watched. 
 

They were way too quick to green light season 3 based off season 1 ratings, but the show was so bad it couldn’t keep viewers new or old. 

 

 

Season 2, Episode 7 intro and flashback are some of the best 5 minutes in television ever.  Tigraine and Tam al'Thor given life like the book simply couldn't.  I have watched that scene 50 times.

[Mailman]

2 hours ago, Frykka said:

Because you will NEVER get a remake that is better if you don't show support.  The 1980s Dune movie was ok, it got a new update because we all watched the old one a hundred times.

I would say it got a remake more due to the book than the film.

 

Which I think is the best hope for WoT as well.

Edited September 16 by Mailman

[HeronMarkedBlade]

3 hours ago, Frykka said:

Because you will NEVER get a remake that is better if you don't show support.  The 1980s Dune movie was ok, it got a new update because we all watched the old one a hundred times.

This is nonsense bordering on emotional manipulation. 
 

You honestly think Dune had anything to do with the original Dune movie? Lol

 

No. Like I said, enjoy. I don’t want this show or its characters polluting my imagination when I read or reminisce on the books. 

[HeronMarkedBlade]

3 hours ago, Frykka said:

Season 2, Episode 7 intro and flashback are some of the best 5 minutes in television ever.  Tigraine and Tam al'Thor given life like the book simply couldn't.  I have watched that scene 50 times.

One scene doesn’t make a broken series good.

 

and if Tam and Tigraine are in the same scene, that’s even worse!’

 

Sorry, they completely broke the canon in episode one. Shattered it. As I said above, I’m glad some of you are enjoying it but I’ll never support it. 

[DojoToad]

On 9/11/2024 at 9:16 PM, CleverParasite said:

*sigh...* why do you have to be such a painful drag?  It's great you love the books so well, and if you hate or love or feel nothing for the tv series, can't you just do us who love the show a solid, and support the continuation of it?  Instead of hoping for its swift cancellation, ideally even mid-filming season 3, and everyone who wants to see it be damned, for YOU have declared it inferior.  Who dares not abide by your wise and empirically true condemnation? Right?  Jeez...would it hurt you to just be a pal to other fans of this series - the books AND the tv show alike?  Or are you so affronted by people having opinions different from yours that you don't realize it makes you a really, just awful person who's so selfish you haven't ever known that's who you are, and by your own choice no less?  
Just...do the minimum to support fellow fans and people of shared interests: write agreeable posts online.  Not too much for you...is it?

I know this was directed at a specific person/post, but why would you expect someone to support something they don't like just because it is related?  "Just lie and say you support the show because we're all in this together!  Rah, rah, rah!"

 

Many on this site don't like the way Brandon finished the series.  I personally think he did a great if imperfect job.  I don't need other folks to 'do me a solid' and support my view.  Fellow fans can feel how they feel and I understand that they have different opinions.

 

Agreeable posts are always nice - especially when they match up with your viewpoint.  But expecting that is pretty selfish considering the diverse opinions out there.  This forum would be pretty boring if we all thought the same...

Edited September 16 by DojoToad

[DojoToad]

3 hours ago, Frykka said:

Season 2, Episode 7 intro and flashback are some of the best 5 minutes in television ever.  Tigraine and Tam al'Thor given life like the book simply couldn't.  I have watched that scene 50 times.

At least there were 5 good minutes in the first two seasons.  Let's greenlight 30 more episodes.  😕

[WheelofJuke]

I haven't watched or kept tabs on the development or release of the LOTR scamazon series, but I read an articles that made it sound like it suffered from many of the issues plaguing WoT. 

Abandoning/altering source material being foremost. 

I don't think WoT's complete fail as a tv show has anything to do with the source material, I think it has to do with scamazon attempting to "buy" their way into a genre they have no actual love for; they're just a faceless corporation that wants to buy up IP rights to your favorite fantasy properties. 

Anyone who is competent at running a tv show should have been able to whittle the wealth of source material down, without feeling a need to add to it. 

It's 100% a botch job. No possible way the series is completed, just a reality check for anyone still clinging to the fantasy that this adaptation is a success. 

And that DOES NOT in ANY WAY preclude WOT from being picked up and adapted (hopefully more successfully) in the future. 

 

Edited September 16 by WheelofJuke
Spelling

[Sestos]

I believe this is the first time I have posted since joining in 2009. Honestly please let the show die. I held out hope for years of a good show or film, even that horrible foggy video in the 2000's that never became anything and the bad done PC game which I still have a CD of somewhere. I was already talking to the TV after watching the first episode and yelling at the TV by the third before just not trying again to watch it for almost a year. Director said he was a fan, but he barely seemed to have read the cliff notes that some intern produced. 

 

The shows is at best some alternative timeline created by the Dark One and presented to Rand to join the Chosen in a vision more then the show or film we all wanted made. Let it die and maybe the rights will get sold again and will see it created as it was meant to be in another 20 years.

 

Also to the concern about if the show is not saved we will never have another chance... lets all be honest. We do not have a Wheel of Time show now.. just some fan fiction that is using the title and names from the books. Rather have some kid born 10 years from now listen to an audio of the book or read it then watch the show and think its the story. We have a better chance of getting a Wheel of Time film or show in the future then Martin finishing his next book in Song of Ice and Fire.

Edited September 18 by Sestos