How to make Gawyn Trakand everybody's fovourite character in the TV show

[Elliot Edits]

I honestly believe Gawyn has the potential to be one of the most interesting characters in the TV show... If the showrunners can make him actually likable.

 

 

Let me know if you think my suggestions would be enough to change your opinion of Gawain, or if he's irredeemable.

[Pandemonium]

John from Wotup already loves Gawyn, he always makes it known Gawyn is his favorite character.  He's the only one I know that has that opinion though.  Poor Gawyn, he had a hero moment with Egwene only to die a lonely death against Demandred.  

[Elendir]

Point of Gawyn arc is about show him as lovable knight at beginning, for him go toxic moron at the end. Somebody can be noble knight base on their moral quality, but Gawyn behaved this way, because he strived for glory.

 

He is reverse version with reverse arc of Galad.

[DojoToad]

Only concerned about the strength of his sword arm - no smarter than Mandorallen...

[DreadLord31]

He could be way more liked for me -- if they have him die right away.

That'd be great.

 

 

[A Memory Of Why]

I get why they get a bad rap but I kinda like these guys.

 

I think it's interesting how RJ incorporates the tropey perfect princly knights into a story they dont fit in.

 

It's not their fault they were Tarvaren'd to the sidelines where their faults overshadows their virtues. In fact, their virtues become their faults with poor chasty Galads logic and Gawyns passion causing all sorts of drama.

 

Who knows, maybe one day someone will romanticise it all and next thing you know..

 

Prince Gawyn ends up stealing the heart of king Al'Thors queen, Egwene(avere) cause they found out he had an affair with his sister Morgase who was disguised as a rebellious golden haired princess, whilst he was traipsing around the country with his knights Galad and co on a holy quest over a cup..

 

Where they come across some dude named Lan(celotte) who just likes dules and convinced him to join then on the promise of some cool fights.

 

Next thing you know, the kings incestuous, basstard son More-Death joins the fray and causes a rebellion that breaks the kings empire and destroys the world..

 

All the while some weird mystic storyteller Merryland and his mistress Nyn(mueay) pulls strings from the shadows for shits and giggles..

 

Or you know, some variation of events..

 

(Insert Merlin meme: "It was the boy!!")

Edited August 22, 2023 by A Memory Of Why

[Scarloc99]

The fact that we are trying to Fix Gawyn shows that the flaw is not in how the reader sees him, but in how it is written and I place the blame for this squarely on Brandon Sanderson, Gawyn's story is one of the many things Sanderson mishandled.

Sanderson felt he needed Gawyn to die for Egwene to then have her moment, he then traced that back and came up with the very valid idea of the Seanchan rings. Everything until that moment was great, Gawyn sacrificing his own life to save Egwene from the Sharans made sense, him running off to fight Demandred made no sense. 

Where the TV show needs to change things is in the way Gawayn dies, Egwene doesn't need him to go off selfishly and get himself killed in what has to be one of the dumbest story ideas in the last battle, Demandred working his way through the lands best swordsmen. She can show the determination and strength without him dying like that. Instead he should die saving her, protecting her, or, remain alive right up until she fights against taim, defending her from mundane threats as she battles against the magical. 

 

[DreadLord31]

15 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

Where the TV show needs to change things is in the way Gawayn dies, Egwene doesn't need him to go off selfishly and get himself killed in what has to be one of the dumbest story ideas in the last battle, Demandred working his way through the lands best swordsmen. She can show the determination and strength without him dying like that. Instead he should die saving her, protecting her, or, remain alive right up until she fights against taim, defending her from mundane threats as she battles against the magical. 

 

So ya'll are convinced we're going to get Gawyn AND Galad? Do you think in this season or next? 

I'm not convinced that Gawyn won't be cut, but I think a strong argument could be made for keeping him. The show just can't keep everybody from the books -- and much of the Camelyn plot-line needs to be condensed or cut. 

[DojoToad]

Gawyn I could care less.  But Galad had some awesome fight scenes in the books.  Gawyn's were mostly off-screen, right?

[Scarloc99]

1 hour ago, DreadLord31 said:

 

So ya'll are convinced we're going to get Gawyn AND Galad? Do you think in this season or next? 

I'm not convinced that Gawyn won't be cut, but I think a strong argument could be made for keeping him. The show just can't keep everybody from the books -- and much of the Camelyn plot-line needs to be condensed or cut. 

I don’t see how you can’t, both play a key role. Galad in the evolution of the whitecloaks from murder hobo extremists to something less murderey. Gawyn on the other hand is a key part of the coup, a lot of which we will see on screen where as it doesn’t make the book and then is present at some of the key moments especially Rand in a box, his hatred for Rand is something that the show can lean into and his relationship with Egwene, as frustrating as it ends, is key to her development in many ways, plus him vs the Seanchan assassins will be a cool tv moment. 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Scarloc99

[VooDooNut]

I agree he has some cool fight scenes in the books, as does Galad, but if someone has to be cut, I'm firmly on Team Gonewyn. His completely misinformed rage towards Rand was the most annoying part of his character for me.

[Scarloc99]

Just now, VooDooNut said:

I agree he has some cool fight scenes in the books, as does Galad, but if someone has to be cut, I'm firmly on Team Gonewyn. His completely misinformed rage towards Rand was the most annoying part of his character for me.

Mis informed but not irrational. The whole world is telling him that Rand killed his mother, the Aes Sedai in the tower are reinforcing that by not telling him it isn’t true. He has been raised to believe the Dragon is at best someone who needs to be caged and controlled and at worst downright evil who will destroy the world. Yet despite that hate he doesn’t kill Rand when he has him locked in a box. 
 

Gawyn becomes frustrating only at the end, and that is all Sanderson fault making him suddenly go from accepting who he needs to be for egwene to then wanting to be the hero again, up until that point his is a very logical character progression. Someone who is lied to and manipulated and then starts mistrusting everything, including how important Rand is. 

[nsmallw]

Then what in your opinion should BS have done with Gawyn ?

[DreadLord31]

1 hour ago, nsmallw said:

Then what in your opinion should BS have done with Gawyn ?

Had him die immediately. #TeamGonewyn 😅

[Scarloc99]

2 hours ago, nsmallw said:

Then what in your opinion should BS have done with Gawyn ?

Had him die protecting Egwene, not fighting Demandred. It was enough to have Demandred beat Galad to show how able he is and Galad didn’t need the inspiration of his brothers death to make him go and take on the forsaken. The story telling was clunky, Brandon is worse then RJ at writing relationships but I got Gawyns reasoning and issues as bad as they where written. 
 

Brandon did something that RJ never did, which was to try and artificially create tension, and he did it both times with the dream spike, also artificially creating that tension between Gawyn and Silviana so making him not return straight away. Gawyn is undone by that really poor writing  making him look pertulant and childish while he is in andor. 
 

But yes, have him die while Egwene is fighting Taim the first time.

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

On 8/23/2023 at 10:36 AM, Scarloc99 said:

Gawyn becomes frustrating only at the end

I see your point here but respectfully must disagree, not that I see my opinion as right and/or yours wrong but I just wanted to say that I was frustrated with gawyn much sooner. To be specific it first happened for me and was excruciatingly frustrating when he facilitated the battle to take down siuan and then immediately changes course and frees her. Pick a lane, gawyn! I’m not saying it’s the fact that he had a change of heart, it’s that he never really did. He seems to just do stuff and then do other contradictory stuff without any clear understanding of why he’s doing things. Another example of RJ writing characters who reflect very real human flaws, so I don’t object to gawyn or his actions as a whole, just stating that he frequently frustrated me much earlier on than he did you 😊

[DojoToad]

8 hours ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

I see your point here but respectfully must disagree, not that I see my opinion as right and/or yours wrong but I just wanted to say that I was frustrated with gawyn much sooner. To be specific it first happened for me and was excruciatingly frustrating when he facilitated the battle to take down siuan and then immediately changes course and frees her. Pick a lane, gawyn! I’m not saying it’s the fact that he had a change of heart, it’s that he never really did. He seems to just do stuff and then do other contradictory stuff without any clear understanding of why he’s doing things. Another example of RJ writing characters who reflect very real human flaws, so I don’t object to gawyn or his actions as a whole, just stating that he frequently frustrated me much earlier on than he did you 😊

Yes - that and his whole not wanting to be controlled by the Tower but not breaking away.

[Dagon Thyne]

The only possible way for anyone to like him is to completely redo his character to make him less whiny and annoying.

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

4 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

The only possible way for anyone to like him is to completely redo his character to make him less whiny and annoying.

Heard. Word. But IMHO I don’t need to like the m*****f****r to appreciate his right to exist….just need some humanity to relate to 

[Scarloc99]

On 9/2/2023 at 6:41 AM, Dagon Thyne said:

The only possible way for anyone to like him is to completely redo his character to make him less whiny and annoying.

Brandon Sanderson made him whiney and annoying, I mean Brandon bless him did a pretty bad job with alot of parts of the books lets be honest. But even then the core of the journey he was on made perfect sense. To go from being raised that he would be important to all of Andor and protector of his sister with an army and all the responsibility that entails, to then realising that the women he loves and wants to protect doesn't want him because he doesn't get it and is making mistakes is a great story. He is one of the most human characters, he wants to protect Egwene the women he loves from everything, the tower, herself, the dark, and in doing so completely loses sight of the lessons he would have learnt for his role as Elaynes protector. he has given everything up, and been told that he has to ignore his own knowledge and understanding of the world, he is constantly told he is wrong about things he feels certain about in his heart and is on the end of a massive Aes Sedai misinformation campaign. 

Then he finally understands, to truly serve the women he loves he has to give it all up and just serve. His journey works really well in direct opposites to Lan who spends his life trying to avoid duty and leadership and finally is forced by the women he loves to accept it and take his place as a leader of men and a king. 

The story could have been told so well, and RJ made an ok start if clunky and unsubtle start with it, but BS just turned him into a emo ki, wrote him awfully, and then tried to artificially manufacture tension and stakes by having the dreamspike almost kill him. He did get a moment in the fight with the Seanchan but that whole relationship with Egwene just existed to prove that Brandon Sanderson is even worse then RJ at writing about relationships between characters in anything other then a highschool way. 

lets please not take what could have been a fantastic tragic arc in the books and blame that on the characters involved, the basis is there for a great mini romantic tradegy the writers just messed up the jump and fluffed the landing.  

[Dagon Thyne]

On 9/4/2023 at 12:37 PM, Scarloc99 said:

Brandon Sanderson made him whiney and annoying, I mean Brandon bless him did a pretty bad job with alot of parts of the books lets be honest. But even then the core of the journey he was on made perfect sense. To go from being raised that he would be important to all of Andor and protector of his sister with an army and all the responsibility that entails, to then realising that the women he loves and wants to protect doesn't want him because he doesn't get it and is making mistakes is a great story. He is one of the most human characters, he wants to protect Egwene the women he loves from everything, the tower, herself, the dark, and in doing so completely loses sight of the lessons he would have learnt for his role as Elaynes protector. he has given everything up, and been told that he has to ignore his own knowledge and understanding of the world, he is constantly told he is wrong about things he feels certain about in his heart and is on the end of a massive Aes Sedai misinformation campaign. 

Then he finally understands, to truly serve the women he loves he has to give it all up and just serve. His journey works really well in direct opposites to Lan who spends his life trying to avoid duty and leadership and finally is forced by the women he loves to accept it and take his place as a leader of men and a king. 

The story could have been told so well, and RJ made an ok start if clunky and unsubtle start with it, but BS just turned him into a emo ki, wrote him awfully, and then tried to artificially manufacture tension and stakes by having the dreamspike almost kill him. He did get a moment in the fight with the Seanchan but that whole relationship with Egwene just existed to prove that Brandon Sanderson is even worse then RJ at writing about relationships between characters in anything other then a highschool way. 

lets please not take what could have been a fantastic tragic arc in the books and blame that on the characters involved, the basis is there for a great mini romantic tradegy the writers just messed up the jump and fluffed the landing.  

he was whiny and emo well before the death of robert jordan.