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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

What are some themes in the wheel of time?


chongjasmine
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PTSD, Trauma, Generational Trauma, Institutionalized Trauma from "Tradition".

Survival.

Powers that believe they know everything there is to know about a subject, actually don't know everything.

The dynamics of Infighting vs Working together.

Nearly every characters lack of Humility.

 

Unreliable Narrator(s)

 

Decay. Change. Growth. 

 

Breaking the chains of Tradition/Morality.

 

Letting go to Take Control.

 

War is Brutal.

Love is Complicated.

 

Rand's inability to understand Women, or safe sex.

 

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On 11/27/2022 at 3:46 PM, SinisterDeath said:

PTSD, Trauma, Generational Trauma, Institutionalized Trauma from "Tradition".

Survival.

Powers that believe they know everything there is to know about a subject, actually don't know everything.

The dynamics of Infighting vs Working together.

Nearly every characters lack of Humility.

 

Unreliable Narrator(s)

 

Decay. Change. Growth. 

 

Breaking the chains of Tradition/Morality.

 

Letting go to Take Control.

 

War is Brutal.

Love is Complicated.

 

Rand's inability to understand Women, or safe sex.

 

Does anyone have safe sex in WOT lol, I am shocked there are not lots of little Mats running around (although he has a habit of having his lovers die). 

On a more serious note I always find the difference between the evil of the Dark Lord and the Evil of Fain/Mordeth to be fascinating I really wish RJ had explored that more and Fain had actually had a decent ending to the series (I always found Mats simply stabbing him to end the threat fell really flat lol) 

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4 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Does anyone have safe sex in WOT lol, I am shocked there are not lots of little Mats running around (although he has a habit of having his lovers die). 

On a more serious note I always find the difference between the evil of the Dark Lord and the Evil of Fain/Mordeth to be fascinating I really wish RJ had explored that more and Fain had actually had a decent ending to the series (I always found Mats simply stabbing him to end the threat fell really flat lol) 

100% agree on Fain.

Honestly the hardest part about reading Fain's chapters, is how easy it is to not even realize you're reading about him. I'm pretty sure in his Internal Monologues he refers to himself by his alias instead of Fain. When we get another character's POV interacting with Fain, it can be even harder to go "oh shit, that's Fain".

 

I really need to read the last battle chapter again... First/Last time I read it was like a fever dream. It was 11pm, and I said "one more chapter, then I'll go to bed". That chapter was the Last Battle... Mistakes were made.

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3 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

100% agree on Fain.

Honestly the hardest part about reading Fain's chapters, is how easy it is to not even realize you're reading about him. I'm pretty sure in his Internal Monologues he refers to himself by his alias instead of Fain. When we get another character's POV interacting with Fain, it can be even harder to go "oh shit, that's Fain".

 

I really need to read the last battle chapter again... First/Last time I read it was like a fever dream. It was 11pm, and I said "one more chapter, then I'll go to bed". That chapter was the Last Battle... Mistakes were made.

Not so concerned about the name changes, I always hoped that given we had seen powerful beings (the Finn) rand would discover the Dark Lord was simply that, another ancient being not some foil of the creator but a monster locked away an eon ago. I had a theory that we where heading in the last battle to him destroying that dark lord but then realising he needed to trap Fain somewhere and so placing him in the prison realising that Fain was part of the cycle, the new Dark Lord that would be found far in the future. 

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It's tough because there's honestly few themes the books don't touch on at some point. But the ones that stand out to me are:

- partnerships, trust, and how they evolve: whether through bonding, traveling buddies, friendship, sisterhood, drinking buddies, political alliances or marriage...there's a lot of solid duos in these books, and characters usually grow within relationships to each other.

- youth changing the world and assuming leadership

- learning from those with more experience but still challenging the status quo about what is or isn't possible

- good leadership isn't just making a team of good people, it's helping them work together when they disagree about almost everything else

- balances of power

- living forever doesn't always make you wiser (or less petty)

- mindfulness, focus, and inner peace during intense stress

- duty and courage in the face of bad odds

- spanking a fellow adult is an effective and appropriate way to communicate

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Tongue in cheek. 

A good spanking sorts out every argument. 
Bosoms are no use if they are not heaving with arms folded underneath (as a man I always thought this position sounds very awkward on the female body). 
Men and Women are 2 different types of creature and neither has any idea how the other thinks, (I always felt in the 4th age someone in randland might make a lot of money writing a book about that, maybe men are from Seanchan, women are from the 3 fold land). 
If you want to get ahead in life never talk plainly and explain what your thinking, feeling or planning to do ever. 
Being Stubborn is a perfectly acceptable character trait. 

Edited by Sir_Charrid
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@Sir_Charrid "Bosoms are no use if they are not heaving with arms folded underneath (as a man I always thought this position sounds very awkward on the female body)."

 

THANK  YOU!!! This was always so weird in the books. Just say the character folded or crossed their arms! We all know what that means, and readers are not sitting there wondering "well did Nyneave cross her arms above her head? Behind her back? In front of her face?".

 

It's the equivalent of writing "Mat was walking, with his legs beneath his butt."

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9 minutes ago, ForsakenPotato said:

@Sir_Charrid "Bosoms are no use if they are not heaving with arms folded underneath (as a man I always thought this position sounds very awkward on the female body)."

 

THANK  YOU!!! This was always so weird in the books. Just say the character folded or crossed their arms! We all know what that means, and readers are not sitting there wondering "well did Nyneave cross her arms above her head? Behind her back? In front of her face?".

 

It's the equivalent of writing "Mat was walking, with his legs beneath his butt."

There are lots of hints in the books that give a deep insight into RJ's mind, small breasted females are usually jealous of more generously endowed women. Men are attracted to women largely based on looks, with "plain women" often being ignored. All women want to learn to be a Domani, even if they outwardly show jealousy. Older women are usually ignored for younger, he very much projects his type I feel into the books :). 

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@Sir_Charrid very true! Sometimes I think the biggest fantasy in most fantasy books is that almost everyone who matters is super hot.

 

I like to think if he were around and written now it might at least be a little different. The books have very strong 80s/90s battle of the sexes pop culture influence which I think a lot of media has moved away from in the last decade. The spanking I really cannot explain away though...

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1 minute ago, ForsakenPotato said:

@Sir_Charrid very true! Sometimes I think the biggest fantasy in most fantasy books is that almost everyone who matters is super hot.

 

I like to think if he were around and written now it might at least be a little different. The books have very strong 80s/90s battle of the sexes pop culture influence which I think a lot of media has moved away from in the last decade. The spanking I really cannot explain away though...

I mean there is a BDSM element to parts of the books if you know to look for such things, combined with the poly relationships I do wonder if RJ dabbled in the alternative lifestyle or at least thought about it. I would say certain things are more accurate and true to real life then 50 shades (which isn't hard lol). 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hello, 
I have yet to read this series. In my country only the books 1-5 are published so far, and I'm not really sure if they following ones will ever get translated and published... I'm hoping the tv show helps to sell more books so that the publisher makes the big investment of publishing the rest of the series. (Honestly, it happens a lot that a series of books gets canceled here and then I have to finish reading it in English.)
I was wondering if it would be a good idea to read this series with my daughter, who really likes the fantasy genre... But reading this topic I started to wonder how much sex there is in these books, and if it's "fade to black" or more explicit. She's almost 12, maybe it's best to wait until she's a bit older? 
Her grandfather was the real fantasy fan and had LOOOOOTS of books, so he'd be the right person to ask if this is appropriate reading for her age, but unfortunately he's no longer with us, and I don't know any other WoT fan, so I thought I'd ask you all. 
Thank you.

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Most is fade to black.  There is a passionate kiss or three.  Humor is often used to take the edge off.

 

Rape is mentioned at least three times.  Female raping male handled in joking manner - not the greatest.  Male raping female completely off page - just mentioned that it happened.  And a monster (shadowspawn) raping a woman - not described but you know what is about to happen before fade to black.

 

Don't recall description of body parts during the sexy times.  But body parts are mentioned at other times to embarrass someone or because of cultural norms.  Only recall one scene where passion between two characters is described in greater detail - ripping clothes off and such, but not talking about 'the act'.

 

The series is 15 books, including the prequel, and I believe the sex is a very small percentage.  But the main male lead does have a polygamous relationship with three women.

 

Now that I'm describing it, there is more than I thought.  But I think it is done well and is way below the level of GRRM.  I would not describe it as explicit.

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Thank you very much for your reply. In my opinion, raping is a much more sensitive subject than explicit sex, so you've given me a lot to think about. I wouldn't want her to miss out on what I'm sure is a wonderful series she will love, but maybe it's best if she waits and reads it at the right age. I'll wait with her too. And maybe by then more books will have been translated.

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Can't recommend the books enough - they are fantastic.  But you need to decide what is best for your family.  When the time is right, you will really enjoy them.

 

The TV show is more explicit and diverges from the books quite a bit.

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