Asha'man attack in Cairhein

[aburuq]

Hi folks. So I just finished Winters Heart, but I'm still wondering about something from the end of book 8 PoD...that is, the renegade Asha'man attack on Rand in Cairhein. 1) Why do they decide to try and kill him, and 2) why then? 

 

As for (1) we know generally the Forsaken have been clearly commanded in the last few books to not kill him. It's clearly not some absolute decision, since in WH when Moridin finds out about his plan with the choden kal (how does he know about that anyway?) he commands everyone to kill him. But at the end of book 8 that has not happened yet. The darkfriend asha'man are under Dashivas command I'm assuming, since we find out in WH that he was in fact osangar. Osangar is clearly not trying to kill him all these months (not sure what he is actually achieving all this time tho....you'd think he could have done a lot more damage to Rand's plans and prospects in that trusted position)...so why do they decide to kill him right after they come back from defeating the Seanchan??

And (2) if they had decided to kill him, they had ample opportunity to do so in Altara during the campaign against the Seanchan. In fact one of the darkfriend asha'man actually saved his life during that campaign...so why do they suddenly change their strategy and try to kill him?

 

Any insight into their decisions? 

Edited September 20, 2022 by aburuq

[DojoToad]

Always bothered me too.  Whether it be Asha'man or Forsaken, I never did get the waffling back and forth between killing or not killing the ta'veren.  Some can be chalked up to 'screw it, I do what I want'.  But certainly not all.

[wotfan4472]

Darshiva was in Rand's presence when he let slip his intentions to cleanse Saidin. It is possible that he went to get instructions, and report on what Rand said.

Given that we know he is Forsaken, and working for the Dark One under his direct command, the only conclusion is that he went to Shayol Ghul, told the Dark One what was said, and the Dark One acted with him. The renegade Ashaman were Darkfriends under Darshiva's direct command. He may have lost Rand's location until he was in Cairhein.

But, one things is it seems the Dark One did not tell Moridin afterwards. Moridin only found out what was intended when all the pieces were revealed when the Forsaken was in a meeting.

It was an action outside the leadership, which the Dark One could do.

[Sabio]

In WInter's Heart the answer is given on who ordered it, but never stated why to kill Rand at that time.

 

Spoiler

In Winter's Heart (page 509) when Rand was hunting the renegade Ashaman, Kisman was thinking how the M'hael ordered them to kill Rand before sending them to Cairhein and was displeased they were found out and failed.  Then Demandred later ordered them to kill Rand.  And later still Moridin said to kill Rand if they must but to bring him everything in Rand's possession.  But seemed not care if Rand was killed or not.  The attack was commanded by Taim.  But other's wanted him dead.  Moridin mostly wanted the Choden Kal and it's possible Dem wanted Rand dead to stop the cleansing.

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Sabio

[wotfan4472]

On 10/1/2022 at 3:54 PM, Sabio said:

In WInter's Heart the answer is given on who ordered it, but never stated why to kill Rand at that time.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In Winter's Heart (page 509) when Rand was hunting the renegade Ashaman, Kisman was thinking how the M'hael ordered them to kill Rand before sending them to Cairhein and was displeased they were found out and failed.  Then Demandred later ordered them to kill Rand.  And later still Moridin said to kill Rand if they must but to bring him everything in Rand's possession.  But seemed not care if Rand was killed or not.  The attack was commanded by Taim.  But other's wanted him dead.  Moridin mostly wanted the Choden Kal and it's possible Dem wanted Rand dead to stop the cleansing.

 

I am aware of those two. I am just confused about why Darshiva disappeared for soo long after hearing that information, then shows up to fight. The only conclusion is the Dark One was ordering Darshiva directly. He could have sent orders through the other two in the process.

I still think that Darshiva was in the Dark One's direct presence that whole length of time. 

[DojoToad]

12 hours ago, wotfan4472 said:

I am aware of those two. I am just confused about why Darshiva disappeared for soo long after hearing that information, then shows up to fight. The only conclusion is the Dark One was ordering Darshiva directly. He could have sent orders through the other two in the process.

I still think that Darshiva was in the Dark One's direct presence that whole length of time. 

Or it could be as simple as Jordan forgot about him, and then was like: Oh crap, gotta do something with Darshiva!

 

He had a lot on his plate, can't blame him for forgetting one of the many minor characters...

[Sabio]

I'm not sure it was him disappearing as it was RJ just not mentioning him. Rand surely would have noticed if Darshiva simply vanished for any length of time while working for him.  He also probably had other off screen duties like looking for where Rand hid the seals and locating the Choden Kal.  So I assume it was more of RJ just not putting him in scenes.

[Jsbrads2]

I always thought the Noshaman were acting emotionally because of Rand letting some of them die against the Seanchan and for killing some of them with his storm of a thousand lightnings.