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Ararana

Prince of Ravens?

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Ok I didn't look through the pages of topics to make sure this wasn't already posted...so sue me!

 

When Mat married Tuon in KOD he became the 'Prince of Ravens'. Who exactly is the Prince of Ravens? Becuase Tuon is the empress of the Seanchan, does that make Mat emperor due to male status? Or is he still in line behind Tuon for the Seanchan throne?

 

I guess where I'm really tring to go with this is, does Rand want to set up a treaty meeting with Tuon, or Mat?

 

Also maybe this will come in to play with Mat having to give up half the light of the world(Tuon IMO). Maybe he was 'destined' to rule the Seanchan, and for that to happen Tuon would need to be out of the picture. Not that I'm saying he will kill her. Something would happen to her, much like Davrim Bashere need to go for the 'broken crown' to fall on perrin and Faile.

 

Any help to these questions? Thanks guys.

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Guest Barmacral

I think Prince of the Ravens would be somehow like Andor's First Prince of the Sword, has power, is usually the spouse or kin, but is not the ruling regent. Rand will have to set up the treaty with Tuon, not Mat, if anything Mat will just be a mediator between the two, if he's there at all.

 

Half the light of the world is more popularly the idea of Mat giving up one of his eyes, rather than his wife. It is also a popular theory that he will give up half the light of the world to rescue Moiraine.

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Concerning the Prince of the Ravens title. There are refrences (TGH I think ch 40) to at least a male emperor, namely Luthair Paendragon. Due to Mat's status of low statue, thier marriage is not between equals. He is apparently a Prince Consort, his status should Tuon die would likely be Emporer unless they have children, and then he would be Regent. Assuming of course the empire survives.

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Adding to Zyrshnikashu backing up Barmacral;

His hat, and hanging scar, and the two ravens on his ashendarei are all Odin references. I think his staff even has the words Thought and Memory on it.

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well I do like my Mat with two eyes...lol.

 

Considering RJ wants to write about Mat and Tuon after TG I'm assuming she is not going to die. I take back my previous thought.

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Given that Matt got this title with his marriage to the DotNM prior to the knowlege that Tuon was now the empress, that title is probably husband of the heir to the throne. His title with Tuon's ascension is still unclear.

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Are you ready for the correct answer?

 

:D

 

We don't really know. It doesn't get explained in detail.

 

Did you see how I managed to be both pompous and ignorant at the same time? Not to mention unhelpful. Its sheer art.

 

:D

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Well, since Mat was called "Highness" for just being married to the Daughter of the Nine Moons, (who was ALSO called Highness) I would think that his position has gone up considerably since. What comes between Highness and Emperor in that society? Nothing that we have heard of, and from the books it seems that as tDotNM she was second only to the Emperess. So I doubt that much separates him from her.

 

My bet is that He is second ONLY to Her.

 

I am suprised that she did not leave one or two DG with strict orders to "Protect" him.

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Highness is an honorific, not a title. It's just a proper form of address for a social superior. It doesn't tell us anything about his precise rank or what authority/responisbility he may have if any.

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Well, not necessarily. The Seanchan are extremely precise on hierarchy, which for them is very rigid and adaptable at the same time. For instance, even though everybody knew Tuon was Daughter of the Nine Moons (what nine moons, anyway?), while she was under the veil they had to call her High Lady. "Highness" may have been the specific honorific for her (and Mat's) particular rank.

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Precisely! Prior to her "coming out from the veil" she was never called Highness - that I can remember - or anyone else for that matter.

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I could be meant to apply to any member of the imperial family without giving any clue to their actual level of authority. Like Prince Philip of England. He's married to the Queen of England but if they were an actual ruling monarchy he'd have no status or power in his own right (other than whatever influence he has on his wife). He can be addressed as His Royal Highness but he doesn't have any particular authority.

 

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong about what Mat is...I just don't think the honorific "Highness" carries with it any indication of what power he may or may not have.

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Beckon's response makes the most sense here. His marriage to Tuon doesn't grant him his own nobility, if she were to die though, it make as much sense that he would then inherit her titles as her beneficiary unless she has children with him, and then he is most likely just thier regent.

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Remember that when Mat is named the Prince of the Ravens no one knows that Radhanan is dead. Tuon is still only the Daughter of the Nine Moons. It might be that Mat will get a new title again when she becomes Empress.

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