Should the season have ended on episode 7?

[SingleMort]

Just putting this out as a hypothetical question with the benefit of hindsight. We know that the departure of Barney and problems with covid caused many issues for the end of the show and this is most apparent in episode 8. Ideally you might say it would have been better to delay the show as a whole until all of these things could be resolved but perhaps that would not be feasible. However, would it have been better to release the show but end the season with episode 7 instead of episode 8 and make episode 8 the first episode of season 2? I know this would mean we wouldn't get a big fanfare ending but I think people might have been more happy with episode 7 as a stopping point than they are with 8. This might have allowed them more time to work on the episode to resolve the problems with it. What do you think?

Edited December 28, 2021 by SingleMort

[Lethira the second]

Personally, I think episode 8 was the weakest of the bunch, I don't think it was a fanfare ending.  The Seanchan arriving looked to me like just another villain to half develop.

Seeing the disappointment from a lot of reviewers, I think a lot of people would have been happier if it had stopped at 7.

[Guest Cranglevoid]

Doubt it would've done much difference. The worst parts of the ending didn't really have anything to do with Mat's absence. They really need to get back to the books instead of thinking they can change the story to the better, because they obviously can't.

 

Remove and shape things, by all means, but stop rewriting fundamentals of the story and stop turning characters into something they never were.

[WoTwasThat]

How did losing Mat, or Covid, cause the show to diverge from the books in such massive ways (other than Mat staying behind)?

 

How do those things explain….

1. Giving Perrin a wife and then fridging her.
2. DR can be a man or woman.

3. Super Nynaeve saves the day. Again, and again, and again…. All the ladies are awesome in general while the guys are mostly inconsequential.

4. The distinction between Saidar and Saidin - so important to so many future plot points and basically what undergirds the entire series - is completely ignored. Men just “can’t channel the One Power without going mad.”

5. Everybody’s getting some! Including Suian and Mo. And even Lan and Nyn have sex (out of wedlock which is super in-character for Nyn) and we even get a walk of shame moment after.

6. Let’s make the Eye “the Dark One’s prison” and concoct The Dumbest Plan In History to take a totally untrained DR to face him.

7. Rand figures out he’s the DR through a montage of Min and flashbacks, then tells Mo, and she’s like Ok.

 

I’m not being rhetorical, I’m genuinely curious: how does “because Mat” and “because Covid” explain this stuff?

 

So now let’s looks at how “Stopping At Seven” would have helped. Here’s what we got in Seven:

 

1. An opening supergirl-of-all-supergirl sequences where a Maiden in full labor is going full Neo on like a dozen soldiers. (Not even a full-fledged Maiden, btw, but I know we’re getting too book-y now).

2. Ways are good, but then we are treated to yet another Nynaeve supergirl moment. That girl can do anything! You go girl!

3. An extended MTV Real World scene where the EF4 stand around a fire and talk about love triangles and “Who Is the Dragon? (TM)”. Maybe I’m the Dragon! Maybe you’re the Dragon! Let’s all be the Dragon!
4. Then we get the Lan Brings a Girl Home to Meet His Family scene.

5. Then we get the Lan and Nyn hookup, followed by a walk of shame to find Egwene for an “ooooh girl!” payoff.

6. Then the moment we’ve all been waiting for: RAND IS REVEALED!!!! ….thru a montage of him playing detective with Min.

7. And finally, Rand knocks on Moraine’s door and is like “I’m the Dragon” and Moraine is like “ok, now let’s ditch everyone else, including my warder, and skip on into the Blight to Fight the Dark One.”

 

And ending on Episode Seven would have been better? ? Episodes 6 and 7 are when things went totally bananas off the tracks. Even after “Steppin’s Episode”, they had three hours to tell

like half a book’s worth of story. That’s one entire Lord of the Rings movie. And instead we got what we got. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by WoTwasThat

[DaddyFinn]

Nope. Episode 8 had a lot more stuff as cliffhangers. Moiraine losing her powers, Rand going AWOL, strange ships appearing from the sea, Fain stabbing Loial etc.

[Lethira the second]

Ending on episode 7 would at least have had a cliffhanger -I'm the Dragon, so what are we going to do about it?  We didn't then need to see 'the blight', which was underwhelming.  Perhaps the extra time to deal with recasting and not getting the locations they wanted would have given us something better.

 

The battle scenes were lacklustre, episode 8 just failed at everything. It made zero sense that one of the Great Captains who had spent his life defending that place made such a bad tactical move.  The circle and Nynaeve possibly dying or being mostly dead just got rid of all sense of danger in the show.  If someone dies, don't worry one of the super girls can mass ress them.  

 

They dropped the ball handling Mat's departure.  In episode 6, Moiraine says to Lan 'can he ride'.  The answer should have been 'no'.  It would have given them more scope for dealing with his departure.  -Secreted away somewhere in the Tower.  In fact, if they involved Siuan in that, it would have been a catalyst for the Tower turning on her.

 

I don't care about the Seanchan coming in and drowning everyone or whatever they appear to be doing because, frankly, I don't care about the characters, they've not been developed.  In my opinion, episode 8 did a great deal of damage to the series that already had a very mixed reception. 

[Sabio]

12 hours ago, Lethira the second said:

Ending on episode 7 would at least have had a cliffhanger -I'm the Dragon, so what are we going to do about it?  We didn't then need to see 'the blight', which was underwhelming.  Perhaps the extra time to deal with recasting and not getting the locations they wanted would have given us something better.

 

The battle scenes were lacklustre, episode 8 just failed at everything. It made zero sense that one of the Great Captains who had spent his life defending that place made such a bad tactical move.  The circle and Nynaeve possibly dying or being mostly dead just got rid of all sense of danger in the show.  If someone dies, don't worry one of the super girls can mass ress them.  

 

They dropped the ball handling Mat's departure.  In episode 6, Moiraine says to Lan 'can he ride'.  The answer should have been 'no'.  It would have given them more scope for dealing with his departure.  -Secreted away somewhere in the Tower.  In fact, if they involved Siuan in that, it would have been a catalyst for the Tower turning on her.

 

I don't care about the Seanchan coming in and drowning everyone or whatever they appear to be doing because, frankly, I don't care about the characters, they've not been developed.  In my opinion, episode 8 did a great deal of damage to the series that already had a very mixed reception. 

They handled Mat as well as they could.  Remember they had to stop after episode 6 because of Covid, then for whatever reason the actor didn't come back.  It was easier to just reshoot the ending and have people scream Mat.  Then in Episode 7 they can have the Aes Sedai look for Mat.  The matter of if can he ride is pointless since he didn't need to ride to go to Fal Dara.  So makes a better story to have Mat decide on his own to say screw this.  I do think they are pushing the dark Mat thing too much.  But that has been a common complaint with the show that it's going too dark with so many things.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Sabio

[Raal Gurniss]

I watched about 3 minutes of episode 8 and just turned it off…So it did basically finish at episode 7 for me.

[SingleMort]

8 minutes ago, Sabio said:

They handled Mat as well as they could.  Remember they had to stop after episode 6 because of Covid, then for whatever reason the actor didn't come back.  It was easier to just reshoot the ending and have people scream Mat.  Then in Episode 7 have the Aes Sedai look for Mat.  Can he ride is pointless since he didn't need to ride to go to Fal Dara.  So makes a better story to have Mat decide on his own to have Mat say screw that.  I do think they are pushing the dark Mat thing too much.  But that has been a common complaint with the show tht it's going too dark with so many things.

TBH it's more noticeable with Mat because in the book Mat was a fairly light and goofy character before the dagger affected him. In the show they made him a pretty dark and depressing character even when in Emmonds Field so the effects of the dagger did not show so much as for a time you couldn't really tell how much of it was just regular Mat.

 

But to get back to the topic if they had delayed episode 8 then they could have added the new Mat in that episode if they wanted.

Edited December 29, 2021 by SingleMort

[Sabio]

I would prefer a new Mat come in season 2.  With the long delay between seasons, I think it would be less noticeable that a new Mat is suddenly here.