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the winespring inn scene, chronologically


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in the context of the first episode, when will that scene come? is it even a scene taken exactly?

 

We've been told, more than one year ago, that the show would open with lan and moiraine along the road. This scene looks very much like an introduction to them, though, which brought me to think maybe this was the first scene in the episode.

But this clearly makes no sense. rand and perrin talks about egwene's ceremony, and we see it on the teaser trailer. it would make little sense to show it in flashback, so we get the ceremony before this. And probably more scenes.

But then, this scene makes no sense if they weren't introducing lan and moiraine as characters here. which makes me think they either changed their mind about the first scene, and will instead introduce them later. Or they added a bit more of extra emphasis on their reveal in the scene that got released.

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Possible Explanation: the show opens with Moiraine and Lan on the road, as previously reported, but we don't really get a formal 'introduction' to them, per se. Maybe we only see them from above, bird's eye view, as they travel through the countryside and the opening music plays, and we only see Emond's Field in the distance, and as viewers are left to wonder who these mysterious travelers are and what business they have in such a remote village. (And hopefully they can weave into that the iconic opening narrative—It was not the beginning, but it was a beginning—somehow.)

 

If it is just the two of them, we may not hear their names; after all, if you're travelling with a close friend, you don't tend to use their name out loud very often. ("Excuse me, Lan, could you pass the water bottle?" "Sure thing, Moiraine—here it is.") More likely, they travel in silence much of the time. 

 

Then we cut to Emond's Field and spend 10-`15 minutes with the E5 before the tavern scene, where Lan and Moiraine finally arrive in town and we learn more about them.

 

(Not sure where in all of this they are going to squeeze the Logain stuff... I have written this elsewhere, but I think a cold-open 5-minute scene where Logain is thrashing a small army of Aes Sedai with lightning and brimstone and CGI out the wazoo (think Suaron in Fellowship) before he gets captured would make a stellar beginning and hook a lot of first-time viewers. After he is defeated and captured, a pair of Aes Sedai share a whispered conversation that despite their heavy losses in battle, Logain may not actually be the Dragon Reborn, and that *some* unorthodox sisters believe the Dragon will be found elsewhere. Whoever could that be? CUT TO: Lan and Moiraine on the road as the opening music finally kicks in full gear, zoom out to show a leaf in the wind blowing away up the road toward Emond's Field off in the distance, play the credits, splash the Logo, and then start the actual episode somewhere in quiet, rustic Emond's Field, possibly with Egwene and Nyneave preparing for Egwene's ceremony.)

 

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I think the Winespring Inn scene happens halfway to maybe the ending of the first episode.  

 

My guess at a Two Rivers timeline is something like this...

 

1.) Lan and Moiraine riding towards the Two Rivers but not arriving.

2.) Something like the Quarry Road with Rand & Tam.

3.) Whatever ceremony they have set up for Egwene.

4.) The boys at the Winespring w/ Egwene's braided entrance.

(Stuff we haven't seen yet)

5. Lan and Moiraine's arrival at the Winespring Inn. 

 

Building off Elder Haman's idea in his thread...  I could easily see 1, 2, and 5 having a common theme of making the viewer think that Lan and the Fade are one and the same.  Having Rand and Perrin talk about the rider before they are joined by Mat in 4.  Mat adding his two cents is also a possibility.   That kind of fits with how the books build up questions about the rider. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Borderlander said:

 

(Not sure where in all of this they are going to squeeze the Logain stuff... I have written this elsewhere, but I think a cold-open 5-minute scene where Logain is thrashing a small army of Aes Sedai with lightning and brimstone and CGI out the wazoo (think Suaron in Fellowship) before he gets captured would make a stellar beginning and hook a lot of first-time viewers. After he is defeated and captured, a pair of Aes Sedai share a whispered conversation that despite their heavy losses in battle, Logain may not actually be the Dragon Reborn, and that *some* unorthodox sisters believe the Dragon will be found elsewhere. Whoever could that be? CUT TO: Lan and Moiraine on the road as the opening music finally kicks in full gear, zoom out to show a leaf in the wind blowing away up the road toward Emond's Field off in the distance, play the credits, splash the Logo, and then start the actual episode somewhere in quiet, rustic Emond's Field, possibly with Egwene and Nyneave preparing for Egwene's ceremony.)

 

 

 

I like this idea.  If you maintain Padan Fain's characterization and him giving the news of Logain to the people gathering at his arrival that can be a really a good scene for his character.  It help might offset the loss of Thom if they move meeting him to later.

 

 

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3 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

We've been told, more than one year ago, that the show would open with lan and moiraine along the road.

Do you remember where you saw this? I remember Rafe saying something about the first shot they filmed being Fain on the road.

 

I agree that the clip we saw will take place close to the halfway point of the first episode - which will undoubtedly end with the Trolloc attack and it's aftermath.

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A scene with Moiraine and Lan on the road would add little, imo, and deflate some of the tension from their entrance in the Winespring scene. The audience is obviously supposed to think that the stranger walking into the Inn is the black cloaked rider, if just for a moment (although I guess I am assuming that there will be a black cloaked rider)

 

 

Edited by mogi68
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My thinking on how this might play out is:

 

1. Open with Moiraine and Lan riding in the rain, but with the primary visual focus on Moiraine, conversation between them about needing to get to Emond's Field before the enemy does. "I just hope we're not too late". 

2. Conversation has enough detail to know that Moiraine needs to find someone or someones the enemy is after. Perhaps even a young man. 

3. Rand sees the Fade on the road. 
4. Implication is that the enemy has beaten M&L to the punch. Perhaps we then see the same Fade marshalling trolloc troops.

5. Winespring Inn scene - hooded guy enters. Is it the fade or Lan? We haven't seen Lan clearly enough to know that the hooded guy is Lan and not the fade until he takes off his hood, so momentarily it could go either way.
6. Moiraine's significant looks for each of Rand, Perrin and Matt have added meaning due to (2).

Obviously anyone who has watched the clip - mega fans - already knows who the hooded guy is, but I think the above could work for the uninitiated.

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That seems pretty reasonable. Alternatively:

 

1. Moiraine arriving at the Tower as a novice.

2. Some version of the Gitara Moroso prophecy (remember Moiraine and Siuan are in the room and we have actors cast as young versions of both).

3. Moiraine being set to her task - seek out the babe.

TITLE CARD - OPENING CREDITS

4. Rand and Tam on the quarry road - Rand sees the Fade

5. Two Rivers miscellany - Egwene ceremony - establishing shots for our other mains.

6. Lan enters the bar, Rand thinks it's the Fade.

7. Other stuff happens

8. Rand, "you scared me so bad on the quarry road!" Lan, "not me, bruh."

9. TROLLOCS!!

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1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

That seems pretty reasonable. Alternatively:

 

1. Moiraine arriving at the Tower as a novice.

2. Some version of the Gitara Moroso prophecy (remember Moiraine and Siuan are in the room and we have actors cast as young versions of both).

3. Moiraine being set to her task - seek out the babe.

TITLE CARD - OPENING CREDITS

4. Rand and Tam on the quarry road - Rand sees the Fade

5. Two Rivers miscellany - Egwene ceremony - establishing shots for our other mains.

6. Lan enters the bar, Rand thinks it's the Fade.

7. Other stuff happens

8. Rand, "you scared me so bad on the quarry road!" Lan, "not me, bruh."

9. TROLLOCS!!

 

I hope this alternative version is close.  But I also could see: 

 

 

 

1) Logain battle & being captured - Liandrian conversation with other reds ... He's a false dragon; it's our job to protect the world and hunt these men down. Moiraine part of the capture. Injured.

2) Moiraine healed. Moiraine convo with Suian remembering the prophecy. Hints at WT factions. Moiraine and Lan sent out. Traveling on the road together. 

 

3) Padan Fain bringing news to EF. 

4) EF introduction - some of that stuff - Wisdom Ceremony - Rand & Egwene intimate - boys friendship.

5) Rand sees Black Rider & talks to Perrin and Matt --- we see the rider is a Fade with Trollocs --- minimal dialogue about killing the boy

 

6) That entrance scene at the Inn

7) Winternight battle 

 

End of episode one! 

 

 

 

 

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I don't think it feels too rushed to leave Emond's Field at the end of Episode 1. Even if Winternight were a 10-minute scene, that still leaves 40-50 minutes of happy-go-lucky Emond's Field activity beforehandd (minus whatever cut-aways we get to Logain, etc.) That's half a feature-length film of pastoral scenery, getting to know the gang, the Quarry Road, meeting Fain, dancing, feasting, and whatnot. Nor do I think there's any need to make Winternight much longer than 10 minutes or so—it's not a big battle scene like Hardholme or Battle of the Bastards. It's a chaotic razing. Fire, monsters, screaming, frantic fighting, find your friends, race away, roll credits. 

 

And it will make for one heck of a cliffhanger to see our E5 fleeing into the night, leaving their village in flames behind them. Start the show with an epic Logain battle; finish strong with a wild, heart-pounding Trolloc attacks... take a deep breath then hit 'play' for Episode 2.

 

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I was just thinking that if we had a bunch of action surrounding Logain, Winternight would push the action component over the top for the episode - not that I'm personally opposed to lots of action.  Do we know Logain's capture is episode 1?

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At some point, I'm going to do a long post on my guesses for S1. But for now:

 

I don't think we actually see Logain in Episodes 1 or 2. I suspect those two episodes will be almost entirely focused on the core group - the the possible exception of the pre-credits opener.

 

I think we are introduced to Logain in Episode 3. And I think we get nearly an entire episode devoted to him, starting with him declaring himself the Dragon Reborn and ending with him being captured.

 

I think Logain's arc merges with Moraine, Lan and Nynaeve in the aftermath of Shadar Logoth.

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1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

At some point, I'm going to do a long post on my guesses for S1. But for now:

 

I don't think we actually see Logain in Episodes 1 or 2. I suspect those two episodes will be almost entirely focused on the core group - the the possible exception of the pre-credits opener.

 

I think we are introduced to Logain in Episode 3. And I think we get nearly an entire episode devoted to him, starting with him declaring himself the Dragon Reborn and ending with him being captured.

 

I think Logain's arc merges with Moraine, Lan and Nynaeve in the aftermath of Shadar Logoth.

Interesting thoughts.  I like reading the speculation - my mind usually doesn't go to all the 'what if's'.  Will be interesting to see how much the folks on DM can guess before the series airs

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I'm pretty sure it's known when Alvaro Morte was filming and it wasn't until they started shooting episode 3. So there's a good chance we won't see him in the first couple of episodes. That's never 100% guaranteed to be accurate but so far these types of leaks have been reliable. 

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2 hours ago, Rose said:

I'm pretty sure it's known when Alvaro Morte was filming and it wasn't until they started shooting episode 3. So there's a good chance we won't see him in the first couple of episodes. That's never 100% guaranteed to be accurate but so far these types of leaks have been reliable. 

then again, they don't have to film stuff in the same order as they show it in the film. while it makes sense to focus on shooting specific episodes because you can use the sets and some of the actors will only be present for that part, they can still take 5 minutes of the clips filmed with logain and show them in episode 1.

7 hours ago, DojoToad said:

I don't see Winternight until episode 2.  Gotta spread the action out...

winternight is, like, chapter 6. you can't spend a whole episode without getting even this far, not unless you include significant stuff that in books comes later. Also, I don't think the public would want to spend a whole hour watching a bunch of farmer living their normal farming lives

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10 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

They can still take 5 minutes of the clips filmed with logain and show them in episode 1.

 

Good point! That does open up some possibilities.

 

I still think they'll want to keep a tight focus on the two rivers in episode 1 to ease viewers into the world. But a Logain cold open might work, depending on how they use it.

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17 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

winternight is, like, chapter 6. you can't spend a whole episode without getting even this far, not unless you include significant stuff that in books comes later. Also, I don't think the public would want to spend a whole hour watching a bunch of farmer living their normal farming lives

I was thinking there might be some action from 'New Spring' or with Logain battles to kick us off - which could push back Winternight.  But as someone pointed out, the title for episode 1 is 'Leave Taking' so now I'm thinking Winternight will be episode 1.

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