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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Sanderson's Recent Interview


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The thing about Logain is they don’t have to do much, to increase his presence compared to EOTW, the only time he appears is when Rand sees him in the distance in Caemlyn. All it might be in S1 for Logain is them showing his capture and him inside the Cage and his reaction to seeing a blazing light of in the distance that he later finds out is Rand.

Both scenes occur in EOTW but off page. 

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On 6/25/2021 at 3:31 PM, Ywingscum said:

I'm going to start my first re-read of the series, I hope I can finish book 1 by the shows premire.

 

The way things seem to be dragging, you have plenty of time to read the first several books before we see the show. 

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14 hours ago, Rand520 said:

The possibility of Logain being the protagonist scares me. Surely they won’t botch it up that badly.

 

@Rand520 how much of the book series have you read? 

 

I don't want to spoil things for you. 

But having Logain as a protagonist doesn't "botch things up" at all...

But if you've only read EotW than I can see how you'd think that. 

 

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And honestly, I don't mean to attack you...so don't read into this. I love the fans who are posting on DM!

 

But

I think expanding Logain's role as a protagonist in S1 would be an example of a really good change for the TV adaption to introduce the non-book reading audience to a number of things:

 

1) The concept of worldwide fear of men who can channel and specifically the idea and significance of the Dragon Reborn. 

2) That major world events are in motion whilst our Emonds Fielders are small town folk who are oblivious apart from the little news that Padan Fain, the peddler, brings them. 

3) Some different factions positions on the Dragon and men who can channel or men in general (they could use Logain to introduce the Red/Blue/Green Ajah conflict in the White Tower).

 

Logain, in my opinion, is one of the best choices of a WoT character who is a secondary protagonist, but of huge significance, that the books didn't do as much with early on.

He's one of the more complex and interesting characters - which I think is why Sanderson (expanded...improved?) his role and perhaps Rafe will give us more of him up front. 

 

For example, 

Imagine if in the first season we got to see Logain's army fighting and him channeling and the horror/reactions of different people/nations. Or if we got to see Logain's capture by Red Aes Sedai. Or if we got introduced to the WT through Logain's stilling. Or all of the above? 

I don't think those are bad choices or would go against WoT canon. They would be good "changes". 

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And this is 100% pure speculation...but if one was going to cut out the Forsaken or a few of them anyways...

 

Logain is really your only other option for a teacher/mentor to Rand. RJ surely realized, and the Tv audience will realize, after Rand is revealed as the Dragon - that without a male-channeler teacher - it's simply not believable that Rand can defeat these massive foes when he really doesn't have a clue what he's doing. 

 

Much like in Rocky or The Empire Strikes Back ...you have to have a training montage where Rand goes from bumbling his way through to bad-ass. 

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3 hours ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

@Rand520 how much of the book series have you read? 

 

I don't want to spoil things for you. 

But having Logain as a protagonist doesn't "botch things up" at all...

But if you've only read EotW than I can see how you'd think that. 

 

I’m on The Gathering Storm currently. I meant the “main” protagonist.

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Oh. I don't think that is the case. Or even a rumor? There's fairly reliable intel that Moiraine will be the main protagonist (or at least, it'll be from her perspective).

Edited by Wolfbrother31
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This is really worth reading.

I think it's reliable...

And it speaks to A) how Rafe and the team really do care about the books, but B) how it is IMPOSSIBLE to do a 1 to 1 adaptation to TV. 

 

For example, 

Rafe talks about the ripple effects of cutting cities. 

 

Honestly, 

This transcript DOES reassure me more than anything else I've seen. 

And I think it is legit from Rafe's mouth. 

 

https://www.wotseries.com/2020/12/23/rafe-judkins-answers-questions-on-changes-to-wheel-of-time-adaptation/

Edited by Wolfbrother31
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With Logain’s expanded role, it may just mean we see more of him on screen then what is in the early Books. A lot of his early story* is told off page.

PS : for @Rand520 this comment in no way means Logain’s page count either increases or decreases in the later books that is for you to RAFO.

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do keep in mind that wot is a big story, and making moiraine the protagonist of a season does not mean making her the protagonist of the whole story, usurping rand's place.

or giving logain an episode and having him "protagonist" of that episode, again, it means nothing for the whole story. just like in the books you have multiple pow characters, in the show you can have episodes focusing on a character.

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8 hours ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

And honestly, I don't mean to attack you...so don't read into this. I love the fans who are posting on DM!

 

But

I think expanding Logain's role as a protagonist in S1 would be an example of a really good change for the TV adaption to introduce the non-book reading audience to a number of things:

 

1) The concept of worldwide fear of men who can channel and specifically the idea and significance of the Dragon Reborn. 

2) That major world events are in motion whilst our Emonds Fielders are small town folk who are oblivious apart from the little news that Padan Fain, the peddler, brings them. 

3) Some different factions positions on the Dragon and men who can channel or men in general (they could use Logain to introduce the Red/Blue/Green Ajah conflict in the White Tower).

 

Logain, in my opinion, is one of the best choices of a WoT character who is a secondary protagonist, but of huge significance, that the books didn't do as much with early on.

He's one of the more complex and interesting characters - which I think is why Sanderson (expanded...improved?) his role and perhaps Rafe will give us more of him up front. 

 

For example, 

Imagine if in the first season we got to see Logain's army fighting and him channeling and the horror/reactions of different people/nations. Or if we got to see Logain's capture by Red Aes Sedai. Or if we got introduced to the WT through Logain's stilling. Or all of the above? 

I don't think those are bad choices or would go against WoT canon. They would be good "changes". 

Agreed. An area where the show could actually improve on the books. 

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4 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

do keep in mind that wot is a big story, and making moiraine the protagonist of a season does not mean making her the protagonist of the whole story, usurping rand's place.

or giving logain an episode and having him "protagonist" of that episode, again, it means nothing for the whole story. just like in the books you have multiple pow characters, in the show you can have episodes focusing on a character.

Agreed. Moraine was a big character, especially in EOTW. Not necessarily concerned about that. But that is very different from the show going “woke.” We will see. 

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This also reassures me that @Thrasymachus comments are unfounded.

 

After hearing this I'm excited. I think Rafe genuinely is going to try to be really faithful to the books. But ...

you just have to cut stuff and adapt stuff.

 

Rafe (I think it's Rafe) offers a thought experiment: if you can only have 4 cities from the tEotW, which ones do you choose and then how much of a ripple effect is there?

 

IN fact, the more I listen to the Dusty Wheel & Daniel Greene, the more reassured I am that it's going to be good.

 

https://youtu.be/1OlEyCDcth0

 

Edited by Wolfbrother31
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In something as epic as WoT, a good adaptation has to use characters as symbols. So, for example, Logain gets to personify the history of false Dragons. He gives viewers a visual representation for the history and mythos Jordan wove in at various points in the story. Putting his early story on screen gives the writers the opportunity to use context appropriate dialogue to set up the concept of the Dragon - as he is viewed within the culture that exists at the beginning of the books. And then he becomes a visual representation of the rise and fall of a false Dragon.

 

Logain's tale also allows the writers to visually represent the power of the White Tower. This Dragon has immense power, but the Tower handles him (with only moderate effort) then publicly humiliates and gentles him. Involving the Tower allows for the early introduction - through dialogue and visuals - of the Warder bond, the Ajahs, and Tower politics. And it allows for an opportunity to see Aes Sedai (other than Moiraine) interact with others - thus allowing the writers to show us how Aes Sedai are viewed within the culture that exists at the beginning of the books.

 

Doing these things, in turn, allows the writers to begin to set the stage for the later divisions in the Tower, the existence of the Black, and the plot between Moiraine and Siuan in an organic way that the writers can frame to suit the overall narrative. It allows the writers to establish Liandrin as a character so that her betrayal can be played to proper effect.  It also sets up Moiraine as a counterpoint (without forcing the writers into a certain narrative direction for her), showing her as operating by herself, apart from the Tower and away from its politics.

 

All of which leads to a better paced, more enjoyable show because you actually see these things get set up on screen instead of having to be told about them. This approach cuts down on the need for expositive dialogue and allows people to contextualize the major players. 

 

It seems to me the decision to include Logain's backstory was a brilliant one. I just hope that they don't pass up the opportunity to have Rand see Logain before his gentling. It's a powerful moment and the one of the key plot elements from Camelyn that needs to stay. (The others being Rand meeting Loial and their reunion with Moiraine). 

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You could also use Logain to add some intrigue on "who is the dragon?" 

 

Let's say they did my intro with the battle of the shining walls and Rand born on Dragonmount and then Moiraine, Siuan, and Liandrin hearing the prophecy of the Dragon. 

 

What if the next scene cut to Logain and his discovery that he could channel? 

 

Fans might freak out if they did it really well. But if we all are up in arms suspecting that the show has made Logain the Dragon - but then wait, no it is in fact Rand. That would be grand 🙂

WE would experience the very shock of the characters themselves ... The soul of the story. Even though it's massively changed.

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9 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

You could also use Logain to add some intrigue on "who is the dragon?" 

 

Let's say they did my intro with the battle of the shining walls and Rand born on Dragonmount and then Moiraine, Siuan, and Liandrin hearing the prophecy of the Dragon. 

 

What if the next scene cut to Logain and his discovery that he could channel?

Absolutely. There are lots of possible ways they can use Logain to advance the story and the themes. The key is to center everything in S1 on the Dragon and the Tower. That should be the overarching conflict. And the EF5 journey should be set against that backdrop.

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The 4th Episode is titled The Dragon Reborn and i think that is when we will at the very least suspect it is Rand if not outright confirmed. Far to many Fans know the truth for Rafe to be able to push it to far, it could easily turn into an ongoing joke as the worst kept secret in Wheel of Time. 

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I think the problems some Fans are having is they think there are going to be major changes to the overarching story. I don’t necessarily agree, i think we are going to get the same story but just from different perspectives and told in a different way. ie: Winternight and some of Logains story. I think we will get Rand seeing Logain in the Cage and then see Logain notice something that makes him sit up and take notice, maybe the Halo he told about in a later book. The change could be that it occurs in a Village near Caemlyn instead of in the City.

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On 6/27/2021 at 7:32 AM, DojoToad said:

The way things seem to be dragging, you have plenty of time to read the first several books before we see the show. 

Well, I'm done the first 2 chapters.  My problem is carving out reading time.

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18 hours ago, Ywingscum said:

Well, I'm done the first 2 chapters.  My problem is carving out reading time.

You have to have priorities.  Amazon's is definitely not WoT.

Edited by DojoToad
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11 hours ago, DojoToad said:

 

You have to have priorities.  Amazon's is definitely not WoT.

That comment shows that you truly don’t understand what the WOT even means. As has been stated many times over the course of the Books, the Wheel has turned 1000s of times over 7 Ages, recurring again and again with no telling of an Age being exactly the same as the other tellings. If the TV Series tells it differently to the Books then it should be called a different turning of the Wheel. 

 

But It is still the Wheel of Time. 

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7 hours ago, Harldin said:

That comment shows that you truly don’t understand what the WOT even means. As has been stated many times over the course of the Books, the Wheel has turned 1000s of times over 7 Ages, recurring again and again with no telling of an Age being exactly the same as the other tellings. If the TV Series tells it differently to the Books then it should be called a different turning of the Wheel. 

 

But It is still the Wheel of Time. 

My comment was about Amazon's prioritization regarding the WoT - not if it is going to be different than the books.  

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1 hour ago, DojoToad said:

My comment was about Amazon's prioritization regarding the WoT - not if it is going to be different than the books.  

Ooops My bad, understand what you meant now. Sorry about that.

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3 hours ago, DojoToad said:

My comment was about Amazon's prioritization regarding the WoT - not if it is going to be different than the books.

I'm interested to see where this is headed. Yesterday clearly marked the beginning of a new phase in marketing. That's the first truly official thing that we've seen that isn't meant only for fan service.

 

Keep an eye on "The Tomorrow War" tomorrow. (It stars Chris Pratt and is an action, sci fi movie.) Amazon is going to want WoT to appeal to the same people who watch that movie. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a slightly longer teaser attached.

 

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