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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Sanderson's Recent Interview


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36 minutes ago, Thrasymachus said:

No, I'm making the case for why nobody should be expecting any kind of greatness out of this, and explaining exactly why a great many of the die-hard fans like myself are being turned off of this whole process.  They could have made a show that respects the story and the fans, and there wouldn't be this level of division.  It's not just me.  And it's not just racists being upset about biracial people being cast in main roles.  So far, I haven't seen a fan who's excited for this show who hasn't had to couch their expectations, to pre-forgive transgressions against the story and the characters, or ignore the disrespect inherent in making "creative" choices that can serve no plot or adaptive function, but merely elevate the taste of the showrunners over Jordan's own.  In nearly every discussion about what's been changed or what's being speculated, even the most forgiving of Rafe's cheerleaders end up saying, "yeah, that sucks if they're doing that, but...." I'm just over here pointing out that there is no "but," this just sucks.

 

And I'm also laying the groundwork for when this turd finally drops on the ground and starts stinking up the place, you don't get to blindly scapegoat the "purists" for badmouthing the show and making it unpopular.  After all, there's not enough of us to make a difference, right?

When all that groundwork you've laid goes to shit after viewers and fans actually enjoy the series? What then?

 

Seems to me you have a very shallow need to have the last word, and say "told you so". 

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27 minutes ago, Thrasymachus said:

  They could have made a show that respects the story and the fans, and there wouldn't be this level of division.   

 

you know, you keep throwing around that sentence. "respects the fans". "respects the story".

But does that actually mean?

They took a team of people close to Jordan as consultants. Including his wife, including the guy who wrote 25% of the total story. looks like respecting the fans enough.

They've been pouring in big money, they got top actors.

 

So i don't get exactly how they are "not respecting" stuff. I mean, unless we take "respect" as meaning "doing exactly what YOU want them to do".

 

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So far, I haven't seen a fan who's excited for this show who hasn't had to couch their expectations, to pre-forgive transgressions against the story and the characters, or ignore the disrespect inherent in making "creative" choices that can serve no plot or adaptive function, but merely elevate the taste of the showrunners over Jordan's own.

again, depends on how you define "fan". Well, brandon himself is a pretty big fan, it's what started him into fantasy, right? And he's excited about it.

I am a fan. You probably would not consider me as such, because i skim over most descriptions and i think sanderson did a great perrin and his mat, while not exact, was not bad either. But I did read the whole saga 5 times, which is more than most people would ever read in their whole lives. And I am excited.

 

Again, what's exactly a fan? I'm thinking you get your opinion because anyone who's not being contrary over minor nitpicks is not enough of a "fan" for you.

 

Your claim to represent the hardcore fandom is unteneble. Your position is a minority, even among the fandom. You are merely redefining the fandom to exclude anyone who's not in your camp. Which, frankly, I find disrespectful. I am a fan, and you have no right denying me my status because I'm not nitpicky enough.

 

And finally, whether they "respect" the original story (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean) will have very little bearing on how successful the show will be. as everyone said, fans are a minority of tv viewers, and people posting here are a minority of fans, and people sharing your opinion are a minority of people posting here. The show may tank if they did an awful job of it, but that's got nothing to do with how faithful they are to the original books.  And given how much money and energy they are putting towards making this show, it's very unlikely that it will end up utter crap. it may be passable, it may fail at being great, it may failt at recovering expences, but a total fiasco? I don't see how that could even be.

 

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In my experience it is only about 10-15% of fans writing the show off at this stage and i always expected that. Doesn’t matter what they do you will get at least 15% of fans will hate it for any one of a thousand reasons.

I may end up in the percentage of fans who hate it but at least i will watch at least 2 episodes first then form my own opinion. I am not going to hate a show I haven’t seen, based on rumours, innuendo, or the opinion of someone who hasn’t even seen the show. 
I’m also enough of an adult to know that WOT as written will not work on screen and the loss of 15% of book fans will not impact whether the show is a success or not. 

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One thing I'm looking forward to is to see how the show approaches the questions that cannot be answered by the source material. How should the scenes flow, in terms of cinematography? When is additional dialogue necessary to provide inner thoughts and narrative exposition in this visual medium - or should the narrator and character's inner thoughts be presented with voiceover? How precisely does an actor stand 'dangerously' like a warder? There are dozens and dozens of questions for every scene. Some are pretty easy and have widespread agreement (although none are unanimous, I'd wager), while others are much more difficult. Note, I'm talking about questions that by their very nature must be interpreted from the source. RJ didn't write down the answers.

 

I think those questions (and the answers that these artists and producers come up with), will have a sort of domino effect on the other questions - the ones that can be copied from the book. "Do we start with Lews Therin? That's what the book does but should we?", "Should we cut this scene or character or dialogue that's in the book? What about adding stuff?", "Should we change the look or feel of this or that prop or culture?" Lots of questions, and I think most people agree that the answer isn't ALWAYS "just copy the book". I think answering these is a difficult challenge from start to finish and it's not really reasonable to judge what we think they've done, without context, before we've seen the show. But being a little unreasonable as a fan is fine honestly, as long as it's not toxic.

 

It's going to be fun to see what they come up with. I'm going into this ready and willing to be entertained, and I hope we all end up enjoying it. It would be a dream come true if they hit a homerun.

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@SinisterDeathAnd when, or rather if (and at this point, it's a big if) that happens, then nothing of consequence will occur.  I'll have some egg on my face, and that's about all.  It'll be about as momentous as Elder Haman's numerous failed predictions.  Maybe I'll ask him how he deals with it.

 

As for your character attacks, I would hope a mod would behave better.  Are you gonna start comparing us to rubber and glue next?  I mean, you've already pulled the, "Nuh-uh, you!" card over your unprovable assertions denigrating fans on a fan board.  Either fans of the Wheel of Time are allowed to be pessimistic about the show, and present their arguments and evidence for their pessimism, or they're not.  Is this thread merely an exercise to create a toxic environment for people who are already expecting this show to be a failure and are already upset at the divisiveness it's created?

 

@king of nowhere You want to know what I consider respect?  It's pretty simple, and I've laid it out multiple times before.  And it's less about what you do than what you don't do.  You don't elevate your taste over the source material, as they did with Tam's sword, Thom's guitar, and the Shadar Logoth dagger.  You don't use superficial elements of the source material to tell your own story, unless that story is a necessary addition to make sense of the story as told in the books, as they are doing with Logain's story and in making Moiraine the "protagonist" of the first season.  For the fans, you don't spark a casting controversy that you know is going to cause an uproar (because most fantasy and gaming communities host closeted communities of racist mouth breathers and anybody that is a fan of any fantasy or gaming community knows this) no matter how book-accurate your casting is, no matter how warranted and welcome it is to un-closet them and roust them out, and then spend all your next reveals showing how different your show is from everything the fan community has created over the last 20+ years in celebration of that material, let alone everything the source actually describes in great detail.  You don't hint that you're going to change aspects of the story that exist for important thematic reasons, namely as the relations of these characters to our own myths and legends, so that you can explore a faddish theme of your own choosing.

 

And as I've pointed out, Jordan's wife, even his and Brandon's assistant, hasn't said anything about the show, good or bad.  Harriet likely can't, given the fallout from the Winter Dragon.  At least not anything bad or anything not approved by Amazon ahead of time.  Rafe has said they're being consulted, but I see no evidence of that.  You'd think Maria at least would say something, even if just to confirm that she has been consulted and that that consultation mattered.

 

As for what I consider a fan, anybody posting on these boards or any others devoted to the discussion of these books I would consider a fan.  Including you.  It would be a pity, almost as much as a pity as the show's lazy omission of the Warder's cloaks, if you were to make me go through your comment history to show you where you've couched or lessened your own expectations.

 

You want an admission from me, here you go.  I could be completely wrong and off-base in my assumptions and in the conclusions I draw from what's been released.  Maybe, even with everything we already know or have strong reason to suspect that's been changed, and even if the optimists are right about the reasons for those changes, this show still succeeds in telling us the original story in an elevated way perfectly suited for this new format.  It's possible.

 

But what are you going to do if I'm right?  Who are you going to blame when mainstream audiences fail to be hooked and there's nothing for book fans to be excited about any longer, because any and all actual fan-service has been stripped out of the show?  When the story you get told is not Rand's, and to a lesser extent Perrin and Egwene's story of running for their lives from an enemy they don't understand and stumbling into their first awareness of their power, and setting up Mat's and Nynaeve's stories.  A story of revealing to the audience, if not himself, Rand's role as a man of prophecy and destiny. But instead is Logain's story of his rise and fall as false dragon due to Aes Sedai manipulation, and Moiraine's story as the one lone "true" Aes Sedai on the trail of the true Dragon Reborn. And the crazy antics of her discovery of the true Dragon and his surprising entourage.

 

Because that's what Rafe has said we're getting.  And while the latter we get some of from New Spring (though who knows how true to that book they'll be), the former is a completely new invention of Rafe's own.  And in nearly every communication, in every little teaser or release, he and others have repeatedly emphasized the differences between the books and the show.  It's hard not to draw the conclusion that we're getting an "inspired by" show, and not a real, faithful adaptation.  That Rafe will be doing the one thing Jordan would have hated: having other people tell their stories in his sandbox, and not his.

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48 minutes ago, Thrasymachus said:

As for your character attacks, I would hope a mod would behave better.  Are you gonna start comparing us to rubber and glue next?  I mean, you've already pulled the, "Nuh-uh, you!" card over your unprovable assertions denigrating fans on a fan board. 

Remember a few posts back, when you claimed "snowflake bigots want to be victims"? That's exactly what you're doing now, playing the victim card over supposed "character attacks". 

 

You  understand that when you argue a point, if your assumption is based on some sort of logic (like absence of evidence) that reductio ad absurdum is a valid counter argument right? It also happens to pair nicely with sarcasm.

 

48 minutes ago, Thrasymachus said:

 Either fans of the Wheel of Time are allowed to be pessimistic about the show, and present their arguments and evidence for their pessimism, or they're not. 

Let me make this clear.

Fans are allowed to express their pessimistic viewpoints.

 

You're 100% allowed to present your arguments and "evidence". This also works both ways. Your "evidence" and "argument" are allowed to be challenged by others. Or... Do you want an echo chamber?

 

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Is this thread merely an exercise to create a toxic environment for people who are already expecting this show to be a failure and are already upset at the divisiveness it's created?

If I'm creating any kind of toxic environment here, it's giving the benefit of the doubt to toxic members instead of just banning them indiscriminately.

 

You'd be surprised at some of the hatemail we get. The number of times people create burner accounts just to post their "last word".

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55 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

 

You'd be surprised at some of the hatemail we get. The number of times people create burner accounts just to post their "last word".

I can imagine it, nothing would surprise me. 

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3 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

@SinisterDeath


@king of nowhere You want to know what I consider respect?  It's pretty simple, and I've laid it out multiple times before.  And it's less about what you do than what you don't do.  You don't elevate your taste over the source material, as they did with Tam's sword, Thom's guitar, and the Shadar Logoth dagger.  You don't use superficial elements of the source material to tell your own story, unless that story is a necessary addition to make sense of the story as told in the books, as they are doing with Logain's story and in making Moiraine the "protagonist" of the first season. 

yes, but what decides if a change is instrumental to the adaptation or if it is made "because the showrunner elevates his own tastes above the show"? It's not a clear line to draw. Keeping mystery on which of the three boys is the dragon reborn could be a boon. Showing Logain could be a great way to introduce worldbuilding - show don't tell, and we get basically told all about Logain from Padain Fain's voice.

 

Also, tastes have changed in the past 30 years. Someone said, there were things that when they were written were feminist, and now they are not. There were things that may be poorly recived by today's audiences. Hell, there were things that were poorly received by the fans themselves when robert jordan published the books.

And I fully expect that pretty much everyone will be made more nice. but especially egwene and rand. Because if they are portrayed as in the books, they may alienate viewers. Just look at how many egwene haters are there just among book fans. And I hope they can soften those characters a bit without losing their flawed nature. In fact, if they make them more likable without changing them to some kind of flawless mary/marty sue, i may even prefer that to the original.

 

Anyway, I get the firm impression that, perhaps subconsciously, your concept of "no respect for the fans" means "changes that I, personally, don't like".

 

 

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For the fans, you don't spark a casting controversy that you know is going to cause an uproar (because most fantasy and gaming communities host closeted communities of racist mouth breathers and anybody that is a fan of any fantasy or gaming community knows this) no matter how book-accurate your casting is, no matter how warranted and welcome it is to un-closet them and roust them out, and then spend all your next reveals showing how different your show is from everything the fan community has created over the last 20+ years in celebration of that material, let alone everything the source actually describes in great detail.  You don't hint that you're going to change aspects of the story that exist for important thematic reasons, namely as the relations of these characters to our own myths and legends, so that you can explore a faddish theme of your own choosing.

case in point. Maybe they had a reason for it. what else were they supposed to do? only show what sticks exactly to the books? when the show comes out and is different, you'd complain more loudly. Cast different actors because, since they changed stuff already, they may as well change that too?

 

I'm not saying the people in the show will get everything right. But whatever they do, someone is going to complain. You should give them more credit. It's not like "they've done that, and I can list reasons it's bad, because they have no respect". It's more like "whatever they do, someone can list reasons it's bad. May as well try".

 

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But what are you going to do if I'm right?  Who are you going to blame when mainstream audiences fail to be hooked and there's nothing for book fans to be excited about any longer, because any and all actual fan-service has been stripped out of the show?  When the story you get told is not Rand's,

wait here.

as i said, there's dozens of ways this project can go bad, and fail to hook mainstream audiences. Bad acting, bad plot, bad marketing, other popular shows gobbling up all the viewers. But faithfulness to the books will not be the reason for it. For the simple reason that the mainstream audiences - those that actually decide whether the show will be successful - did not read the books.

Yes, I acknowledge that the show can be unsuccessful. it can even be genuinely bad, despite top actors and top money, game of thrones proves that. But I certainly have no idea what will be to blame in such a case, as i can't see the future.

what I'm pretty sure of is, though, that the show can also fail for being too faithful to the books. For being faithful about the wrong things.

On this regard, be also aware that you have very specific, and definitely not mainstream, tastes. if rafe knows that changing something he'll piss you, but he'll please 10 other people, he'll definitely make the change. Yes, having niche tastes sucks. I've been there before. But just because the producers choose to not cater to your tastes, it does not mean they are dumb. In fact, if they want to have success with the masses, it's probably a good idea. It just means they have to recoup expences. 

Or, you know, you could find some way to earn $ 100million, so you could use them all to hire actors to make a wheel of time show how you really like, and you could watch it with all the other diehard fans. The whole dozen of them.

 

 

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Because that's what Rafe has said we're getting.

did he? I read all the interviews I could find - and i started lurking here basically just to find news - and I never read that. he said he wants to expand logain's role. he said he wants to tell the story through moiraine's perspective, at least at first.

That logain will be the protagonist and aes sedai really manipulated him to make him rise, i don't remember reading anything close to that.

 

You are right in getting worried. yes, there are reasons to worry. when trying to adapt a project as big as wot, there's plenty of things that can go bad, even when you have the best circumstances. but losing faith already? based mostly on stuff that nobody said? totally premature.

My position is always the same. I will watch the show, and then I'll decide if I like it.

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17 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

I don't want this show to do well.  I want it to be a bigger dumpster fire than I already suspect it will be.  I want it to be so bad they don't even bother airing the episodes of the second season they're already filming, that they strongly consider not even finishing the airing of the first season.

At least you're finally being honest about it. You are actively rooting for the show to fail.

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Ok. I guess Im not even close to the same vein as Thras... We haven't seen anything real yet! That's a bummer for sure & baffling us. But from the nothing that we've seen it surely can't be enough to already judge the show "a turd" that we hope massively fails! 

 

I think we as book fans ... Even the most supportive of the show, realize that they're not making it for us. It's all bout the $$$. And @SinisterDeath is right that its probably a pretty small % of the market they're aiming for that has read RJ ... Recently, anyways. 

 

But Sanderson's interview really does NOT assure me ... I take his comments as ... "As a book superfan/author I was surprised and didnt like the changes. But then I accepted the fact that this is a new turning of the wheel and they aren't making the books... And if I take the show as something completely different than the books, then I can enjoy the fact that Rafe is a good storyteller, and is looking at the bigger picture, ECT..."

 

That's what I heard. And I think that's what @Thrasymachus heard too and hence his disgust. He wants it to fail because he wants the books on screen?? But Thras, it's impossible to get such a thing from WoT. It's too massive and detailed. We have nothing to compare it to...WoT is what, 3 or 4x longer than GoT? We will have to see what we get, but I really think this is our 1 shot at getting WoT on screen. So I really really want it to be good!

 

 

Others took Sanderson's comments differently. Obviously. Hence this particular thread.

 

 

Edited by Wolfbrother31
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6 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

We have nothing to compare it to

I don't think that's true. Yes, it's longer than GoT - but it's also a finished product. So GoT is an apt comparison.

 

A better one is probably "The Last Kingdom" on Netflix. It's a 13 volume series (so far) that's been adapted into 5 seasons of television. 

 

The show is high quality. Amazing acting performances (which is comforting, since WoT shares the same casting director), good production values, sharp writing, etc. 

 

It is also very clearly not a beat for beat telling of the books. It reorders events, changes character introductions, modifies relationships, and culls characters. It even *gasp* redesigns the main character's primary weapon. And despite all that, it is a very good - if not great - adaptation of the books. 

 

All the changes help the audience to understand the characters better, to improve pacing, to make explicit the main character's internal monologue, and/or to expand on character motivations.

 

But you can't watch the show and think it does a poor job of telling Uthred's story. There is no reason WoT can't be the same. And if we get something of similar quality, I will be overjoyed.

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22 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

I take his comments as ... "As a book superfan/author I was surprised and didnt like the changes. But then I accepted the fact that this is a new turning of the wheel and they aren't making the books... And if I take the show as something completely different than the books, then I can enjoy the fact that Rafe is a good storyteller, and is looking at the bigger picture, ECT..."

But he didn't say the things in bold. He didn't even really imply them. He only said that he needed to change his frame of mind in order to be open to fairly analyze whatever changes they made.

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@Elder haman you've mentioned the Last Kingdom before... I just don't have that context. I've never read those books and gave up on the show after two episodes cause I thought Vikings was better. 

 

Hopefully if WoT is closest to that it doesn't have a similar competitor. As I would be in the "mainstream" audience that hopefully WoT can get and retain!

 

And I know BS didn't say that ... That's basically what I read into his comments because he can't really say much about it until it comes out. 

Edited by Wolfbrother31
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I got a little bit of that vibe you're describing too, Wolfbrother31. He was definitely guarded about it. However I think there are likely reasons for that other than disapproving of their adaptation decisions. Don't get me wrong, he might feel that way. But what he said was definitely positive. He flat out said that the story is in good hands, that Rafe is dedicated to the Wheel of Time, and that he is very pleased with what he's seen (he emphasized this). Maybe he's talking around the issue, but I don't think so. From the few times I've seen Sanderson do interviews and public speaking as a point of comparison, his demeanor in this one didn't strike me as being suspiciously elusive or anything. Just guarded, because it's not really his project and he's promised not to say too much at this stage.

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Oh I agree, It;  ... I think BS comments do say that he thinks it's a good show. Which is a good sign, I think. But what may be really interesting after we see the first episode is that the show might do really well & a fair portion of fans on DM (and apparently Thras for sure) still be saying "I told you so." While the other side of this discussion will be saying "I told you so!" Because it's vastly different from WoT as books. I dont see how we could possibly get the "dumpster fire" Thras hopes for - they've put too much into it for it to completely suck. 

 

I guess we just need to all try to have Sanderson's frame of mind adjustment and accept - hey, this is different - but it can still be good. 

 

I mean, I think there's a number of changes that could actually be improvements. And the more I think about it, I don't really care about the nitpicky stuff - the dagger, sword, guitar ... I've decided I don't care. If the show is good and not cheesy - that'll satisfy me. 

 

Which - Thras is saying ... Ok, we're tempering are expectations. But I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Since we're discussing a quote from this Sanderson interview I transposed it (and cleaned it up) here, for reference. I tried to get it right and also cut out the inevitable 'uh's and repeated phrasings that come with a live interview, so this isn't word-for-word but it's close.

 

Q: "Your opinion at the time, last time we spoke was: there are some changes coming, maybe some you didn't necessarily agree with, but generally you liked how things were going. Do you share the same opinion, do you like where Rafe seems to be taking this, even into season 2?"

 

A: "The Wheel of Time is in very good hands, in Rafe. I am pleased, he is a very good storyteller and very dedicated to the Wheel of Time. So I am pleased with what I have seen. And we talked about this last time. The big change in my brain happened when I realized 'you know what, I just have to treat this as a different turning of the wheel. This is not filming the books. This is the next or maybe many turnings in the future. It is a slightly different interpretation of the same story. And because the narrative allows for that and kind of even encourages that idea, I think it should just be fandom's head-canon for any Wheel of Time adaptations, if this television show happens and then there's movies or if there's, you know, if it's like Tolkien where we end up with five or six different styles of adaptation. We have in the Wheel of Time this wonderful thing that these can each be canon, just in a slightly different style of canon.' And so making that changeover in my head has allowed me to focus on: are the souls of the characters right, is the narrative good, and is this a good introduction for people to the Wheel of Time? And all of the answers I've had to those things are yes."

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1 hour ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

I just don't have that context. I've never read those books and gave up on the show after two episodes cause I thought Vikings was better. 

You should give it another shot. Vikings was good, but TLK grows better and better as it goes. 

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18 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

It'll be about as momentous as Elder Haman's numerous failed predictions.  Maybe I'll ask him how he deals with it.

I mean, I admit I was wrong and move on with my life. It's not too hard to deal with.

 

18 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

Is this thread merely an exercise to create a toxic environment for people who are already expecting this show to be a failure and are already upset at the divisiveness it's created?

Being the creator of the thread, my intention was to demonstrate that Brandon Sanderson had nice things to say about Rafe and the production overall. That, I felt, should give people who are having qualms about the series some reason to be optimistic.

 

I guess I underestimated the degree to which people are invested in the failure of the product. In retrospect, I should have anticipated the "well, actually Brandon Sanderson is bad / not a real fan / paid off" takes. I mean why should I trust the impressions of the author over the "true fans"?

 

18 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

You want to know what I consider respect?

Only if you'll acknowledge that "respect" is a subjective concept. So long as you insist that your concept of "respect" is the only valid one, it isn't a particularly interesting conversation to have.

 

19 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

For the fans, you don't spark a casting controversy that you know is going to cause an uproar (because most fantasy and gaming communities host closeted communities of racist mouth breathers and anybody that is a fan of any fantasy or gaming community knows this) no matter how book-accurate your casting is, no matter how warranted and welcome it is to un-closet them and roust them out, and then spend all your next reveals showing how different your show is from everything the fan community has created over the last 20+ years in celebration of that material, let alone everything the source actually describes in great detail.

I'm genuinely confused by this. Do you mean to suggest that they should not have cast the people they did? Why? Because it triggers "racist mouth breathers"? So, they should cower to the whims of those people? Why? 

 

Why are the aesthetics described in the book the only appropriate ones to use in the show? Is there an adaptation that is entirely faithful to descriptions of the written source material? Which one? Was it any good? Why is that the criteria? (Or are you simply picking nits to justify your own desire that the show fail?)

 

19 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

And as I've pointed out, Jordan's wife, even his and Brandon's assistant, hasn't said anything about the show, good or bad.

So? What does this prove? 

 

19 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

Harriet likely can't, given the fallout from the Winter Dragon.

Do you have evidence of this?

 

19 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

Rafe has said they're being consulted, but I see no evidence of that.

So we are to assume Rafe is lying? To what end? 

 

19 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

You'd think Maria at least would say something, even if just to confirm that she has been consulted and that that consultation mattered.

Why would you think this? Is Maria obligated to make a public statement? Is Harriet's role as a consulting producer meaningless? Why should we make that assumption?

 

19 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

Who are you going to blame when mainstream audiences fail to be hooked and there's nothing for book fans to be excited about any longer, because any and all actual fan-service has been stripped out of the show?  When the story you get told is not Rand's, and to a lesser extent Perrin and Egwene's story of running for their lives from an enemy they don't understand and stumbling into their first awareness of their power, and setting up Mat's and Nynaeve's stories.  A story of revealing to the audience, if not himself, Rand's role as a man of prophecy and destiny. But instead is Logain's story of his rise and fall as false dragon due to Aes Sedai manipulation, and Moiraine's story as the one lone "true" Aes Sedai on the trail of the true Dragon Reborn. And the crazy antics of her discovery of the true Dragon and his surprising entourage.

 

Because that's what Rafe has said we're getting.

No he hasn't!! That is your bizarre interpretation of Rafe's vague comments amalgamated with intentionally vague promotional material into some sort of Frankenstein's monster of pessimism. 

 

When you take a minute to step back and realize the task that is before the writers, you see that it makes sense to use Logain's story as a vehicle to convey important information about: the Dragon, saidin, Aes Sedai, gentling, the White Tower, and the geopolitics of Randland. You realize that it makes sense to preserve some of the mystery about who the Dragon Reborn is by leaning into Moiraine's arrival as the "inciting incident" of the story. Nothing about using these viewpoints necessarily distracts from the actual plot of WoT.

 

19 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

And in nearly every communication, in every little teaser or release, he and others have repeatedly emphasized the differences between the books and the show.

This is not true. Unless the "others" you are referring to are people like yourself. 

 

19 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

It's hard not to draw the conclusion that we're getting an "inspired by" show, and not a real, faithful adaptation.

No it isn't. It's not hard at all. All it requires is a dash of self-awareness and the ability to recognize that it's impossible to judge something you haven't seen. 

 

If it's not for you, that's fine. I just don't understand the need to come in and rain on everyone's parade and tell everyone how awful things are going to be just because - thus far - they've failed to meet your lofty standards.

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Hi! Good to hear about Sanderson comments.  I am eagerly awaiting the show, hopefully soon?  I only read the books once.  Like, I started reading them about the year 2000? Finished in 2012?  I am a slow reader but not that slow, I read many other books in that time frame.  But I do forget A LOT!

I'm going to start my first re-read of the series, I hope I can finish book 1 by the shows premire.

 

Anyway just popping to say hi, and I am cautiously optimistic for the show.  I hope we get 14 seasons!

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3 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

You should give it another shot. Vikings was good, but TLK grows better and better as it goes. 

Definitely and why give up on one show because the other is better? I do prefer Vikings but am still a big fan of TLK. While I’m really looking forward to the WOT Series, the LOTR Series is only a close step behind for me and House of the Dragon not far behind that. 

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If nothing else, Sanderson confirms what they've been telling all the time: that the plot was significantly reworked.

And we all knew it was inevitable: different mediums require different adaptation, even before we take into account WoT's sheer size.

The only question has ever been, are those changes good? are they functional to the adaptation while preserving the core of the story? And sanderson gave his blessing here.

 

personally, my target here is the witcher. That one was a good adaptation; they changed storylines, addeded stuff, cut stuff, moved stuff around. They made tissaia much harsher than she was, while making jennefer more symphatetic. and her whole backstory was expanded from what, in the books, amount to a few lines.

but all of that worked, the characters were true to their core, and the show was enjoyable.

 

If we get that, I'll be happy.

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2 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

If nothing else, Sanderson confirms what they've been telling all the time: that the plot was significantly reworked.

And we all knew it was inevitable: different mediums require different adaptation, even before we take into account WoT's sheer size.

The only question has ever been, are those changes good? are they functional to the adaptation while preserving the core of the story? And sanderson gave his blessing here.

 

personally, my target here is the witcher. That one was a good adaptation; they changed storylines, addeded stuff, cut stuff, moved stuff around. They made tissaia much harsher than she was, while making jennefer more symphatetic. and her whole backstory was expanded from what, in the books, amount to a few lines.

but all of that worked, the characters were true to their core, and the show was enjoyable.

 

If we get that, I'll be happy.

Hope we get more consistent directing then Witcher though, thought there was a huge difference in quality between episodes. 

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2 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

my target here is the witcher. That one was a good adaptation;

I liked the Witcher. I didn't love it. Mostly because of the weird timeline stuff and uneven acting. But I won't be too bummed about a Witcher quality product for WoT

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On 6/25/2021 at 11:07 AM, Wolfbrother31 said:

Sanderson's interview really does NOT assure me ... I take his comments as ... "As a book superfan/author I was surprised and didnt like the changes. But then I accepted the fact that this is a new turning of the wheel and they aren't making the books... And if I take the show as something completely different than the books, then I can enjoy the fact that Rafe is a good storyteller, and is looking at the bigger picture, ECT..."

 

That's what I heard. And I think that's what @Thrasymachus heard too and hence his disgust. He wants it to fail because he wants the books on screen?? But Thras, it's impossible to get such a thing from WoT. It's too massive and detailed. We have nothing to compare it to...WoT is what, 3 or 4x longer than GoT? We will have to see what we get, but I really think this is our 1 shot at getting WoT on screen. So I really really want it to be good!


Yes. This is the point I made about 50 posts ago. Then there was this weird feud for the past couple pages.  Man, that escalated quickly! LOL….

Edited by Beidomon
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The possibility of Logain being the protagonist scares me. Surely they won’t botch it up that badly.

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