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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

New Q&A with Rafe Judkins


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2 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

@SinisterDeath is that a sword someone made?! that looks awesome - why in the world couldn't the show have just used that?!  

I believe that was a license sword replica from back in the day.
https://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/heron-mark-sword.html

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Posted (edited)

What baffles me in how they've done marketing though, is: the only people who are paying attention to the stuff they've released are people who are already fans of the books (I think that is a fair statement, would anybody disagree? they've not released any marketing that the general pop would have seen unless they went a looking, right?) so why in the world make lazy - unfaithful to the books - changes? Like the sword, and the guitar? Along with @Thrasymachus, that makes me very, very nervous - that the people at the helm are not really that committed to the source material. Cause either, they did it unintentionally (which is scary) - or they did it intentionally (which is also - a bummer)!  -- oh oops -- this pic below is an example of how they could have brought a fan along to help with design! gee whiz! not that hard

wot weapons.jpg

Edited by Wolfbrother31
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35 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

so why in the world make lazy - unfaithful to the books - changes? Like the sword, and the guitar? Along with

The dagger was mentioned by users? That it could have been altered so the Ruby is more visually prominent on screen, as we can't actually see the ruby on the pommel, unless Mat's actor tips it "just so". 

The guitar change was explained by Rafe that the Actor playing Thom actually plays the guitar. Makes sense, and justifiable to me. It'll be interesting how they play that guitar off (if at all?) as the instrument of "nobles", unlike those "bards" that Gleeman despise. 

The sword, was given no explanation, and I didn't really see any fans say one way or the other.

If we go by just what's presented perhaps this is the justification for the changes:
Dagger - Changed aesthetically to be better viewed on screen.
Guitar - Changed so the actor could play it.
Sword - Changed so the actors could be trained to use a sword?

Go back to my post about Stormbreaker.
Why change Stormbreaker's aesthetic in the MCU? Don't they care about the source material! How DARE they! Have they no RESPECT! They must be lazy and not care!
Where was that outrage when we saw stormbreaker? Where fans eviscerated MCU for daring to tarnish the spirit of Marvel/Thor by changing Stormbreaker's aesthetics!  

I'd argue these small changes from the books aren't indicative of greater-unfaithfulness we've yet to see. Rather, from what we've seen so far, the changes were made for a reason we as fans haven't been privy to, and may never be, while still respecting the source.

As an aside, does anyone have an actual description from the book on what Tam's sword looks like? (Chapter/page number?)

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If they stick to the basic framework (dragon reborn, breaking, saidar/saidin, aes sedai, forsaken, etc.) they can change a LOT and still make a good show - maybe even better in some ways than the books. It all comes down to how it is written, acted, and produced. 
 

Just don’t go woke, don’t make it cheesy, and don’t deviate from the MAJOR plot points and I think I’ll be satisfied. 

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Posted (edited)

 

58 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

@SinisterDeath is that a sword someone made?! that looks awesome - why in the world couldn't the show have just used that?!  

Might have something to do with the way they are trying to portray Tam. That his sword should look like a soldier's blade. Perhaps going so far as to make Rand familiar with Tam's involvement in the Aiel War. If the sword is the sword of a common soldier and the "secret" is that he was awarded the heron mark - stamped onto that common sword.

 

So while the picture does look like an absolutely incredible sword - it wouldn't fit what they're trying to do with the character. It would stand out and wouldn't fit the visual aesthetic. It would stick out like a sore thumb.

 

I also agree with @SinisterDeathabout the dagger. The change in position for the ruby is clearly to improve visibility. Otherwise the dagger is very similar to how described - especially given that we haven't seen the dagger itself, only the scabbard.

 

Similarly, Thom's guitar shouldn't look like the "instrument of a court bard." Thom isn't a court bard when we meet him. He is a common gleeman. Perhaps he has other instruments as remembrances of his days as the court bard of Camelyn, but he doesn't play them in a common inn for shepherds and farmers. That would be something in keeping with Thom's character.  

 

The bottom line is: these are changes made to enhance our visual understanding of the characters not because Rafe has some sort of God complex and is cackling as he undermines Jordan's legacy (books he has repeatedly told us he loves) while the author's widow and the author of the series look on helplessly at the wreckage. The complaints just don't track.

Edited by Elder_Haman
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6 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

I really hope you guys are right! 

So do I. o_O

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:


As an aside, does anyone have an actual description from the book on what Tam's sword looks like? (Chapter/page number?)

 

 

EotW, Ch 5 "Winternight"

 

eta: p 66 in my paperback

 

Edited by Fano'Lan Redux
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30 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

 

Might have something to do with the way they are trying to portray Tam. That his sword should look like a soldier's blade. Perhaps going so far as to make Rand familiar with Tam's involvement in the Aiel War. If the sword is the sword of a common soldier and the "secret" is that he was awarded the heron mark - stamped onto that common sword.

 

So while the picture does look like an absolutely incredible sword - it wouldn't fit what they're trying to do with the character. It would stand out and wouldn't fit the visual aesthetic. It would stick out like a sore thumb.

 

I also agree with @SinisterDeathabout the dagger. The change in position for the ruby is clearly to improve visibility. Otherwise the dagger is very similar to how described - especially given that we haven't seen the dagger itself, only the scabbard.

 

Similarly, Thom's guitar shouldn't look like the "instrument of a court bard." Thom isn't a court bard when we meet him. He is a common gleeman. Perhaps he has other instruments as remembrances of his days as the court bard of Camelyn, but he doesn't play them in a common inn for shepherds and farmers. That would be something in keeping with Thom's character.  

 

The bottom line is: these are changes made to enhance our visual understanding of the characters not because Rafe has some sort of God complex and is cackling as he undermines Jordan's legacy (books he has repeatedly told us he loves) while the author's widow and the author of the series look on helplessly at the wreckage. The complaints just don't track.

 

I am going to enjoy my anticipation for the series each and every day. A little extra reason to smile and be grateful.  Nothing anyone says here will deny me that enjoyment. Some folks come off as wanting to be miserable and offended that not everyone is as miserable as them. As I get older, I'm less and less willing to allocate my limited time on this spinning rock to those types of folks.  If the show does not entertain me when released, I will not continue to watch but still will have added all those additional moments of joy to my days between now and then.

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Posted (edited)

Hopefully the sword at least has a heron on the pommel that we can't see in the teaser. It's important for both the prophecy and several scenes where Rand is assumed by strangers to be a blademaster, and somebody they should be wary of. If I remember correctly, the heron on the pommel is also important for his first meeting with Morgase, where the crowd gasps and the guards nearly draw their swords, initially not realizing that they let a blademaster get so close to the queen.

Edited by TheMountain
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/1/2021 at 9:07 PM, Wolfbrother31 said:

@Fano'Lan Redux I like your "enjoyment first", savor the moment attitude. That is nice. 

 

Cheers Wolfbrother31 - hopefully it's an enjoyable ride. As long as they don't try to portray Faile as some sort of domestic violence inviting victim, the team will get enough rope to hang themselves from me. If the promotion materials and episode 1 present like a particular article on Dragonmount, I won't return for a second episode. Either way, it will be fun for me in the interim.

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25 minutes ago, Fano'Lan Redux said:

If the promotion materials and episode 1 present like a particular article on Dragonmount, I won't return for a second episode. Either way, it will be fun for me in the interim.

 

To what article are you referring? Can you link it @Fano'Lan Redux

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11 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

To what article are you referring? Can you link it @Fano'Lan Redux

 

I only recall one personal agenda article given a spotlight on this platform and prefer to not link it

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@Fano'Lan Redux I don't understand. Now I think I get that you are saying if the WoT first episode is about promoting a personal agenda you'll be done with it; but what would an example of that be? How would WoT promote a personal agenda?

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  • 2 months later...

I believe the point about Tam’s sword is that he was not just a common soldier and it was not a common soldier’s sword so should not look like one. 
 

The changes to Thom’s instruments of choice are less of a concern IMO. Call it a mandolin for those with heartburn that a guitar is anachronistic. What concerns me is: Will he have the epic ‘stache?! That is a must-have! (Please?)

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On 5/22/2021 at 8:17 PM, Elder_Haman said:

Logain is a character in the books. His declaring himself to be the Dragon, his capture and subsequent gentling happened in the books. The fact that they are choosing to depict these events rather than letting them happen off-screen doesn't make it a "big ... departure" from the source material. 

 

 

Nowhere does it say that Moiraine is the "main character". The promotional material thus far references Moiraine because (1) Rosamund Pike is the most recognizable actor in the series [like Sean Bean in GoT], and (2) because they likely want to preserve some mystery around the EF5. 

 

Even though it is obvious to readers of EotW that Rand is the main protagonist, it is not obvious to Rand at the beginning of the story. Nor is it immediately obvious to Moiraine. Beginning from her POV simply preserves some of the mystery, which is something useful for attracting and keeping an audience. 

 

This is entirely meaningless in terms of whether the show will be a "big ... departure" from the books - especially when comparing it to "A Letter for the King" or "Shannara Chronicles" in terms of the over all fidelity to the source material.

 

Rafe says this in the context of whether each season is going to adapt a single book. He's pulling content from other books in order to streamline the timelines and make certain that they tell the entire story. There's nothing about, for example, bringing content from New Spring into Season 1 that would cause the show to be a "big ... departure".

 

In fact, it is entirely to the contrary. The writers keeping the entire series in mind rather than focusing on adapting a single novel at a time helps to keep the series faithful to RJ, not the other way around.

 

Here, he's simply speaking to people who are inclined to believe that a TV adaptation will be a beat-for-beat reproduction of the novels. It can't happen. It's impossible. The fact that there will be big changes (removing the Trakands from S1, for example) is inevitable. But introducing them in S2 doesn't immediately make the show a departure on the scale of "A Letter to the King".

 

No doubt the show will be different from the books in myriad ways. That does not equate with it being "unrecognizable". To claim otherwise is just myopic thinking.

 

On 5/24/2021 at 6:40 PM, Carebear Sedai said:


That might be a slippery slop, because yes as book fans we’d be excited to see them. But TV-only fans will be left confused and find it an inconsistency when the cloaks don’t show up again. I expect the biggest rule they have will be to keep things consistent, which the books themselves suffer from. 
 

Overall I do expect the show will be different than the books in more ways than some of you are expecting. The problem with internal narrative isn’t solved by having characters blurt out their thoughts and motives at all times. Even if they did that kind of characterization and world building will be hollow. Instead they’re tasked with showing us things like Perrin’s struggle with and aversion to violence through scenes that explores his mindset and the reasons for it, making sure the viewer can relate to and understand him without the luxury of reading his thoughts.

 

For me personally, what’s key are the character journeys. Not everything will have to be done as it happens in the books, and I’ll be sorry to not see aspects of the book I dearly love, but as long as the characters’ arcs stay true to the core of what these kids experience and the ways they change, I’ll be pleased.  

These.

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