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johnnysd

What major castings are still to be announced?

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1 hour ago, Thrasymachus said:

Why would the Forsaken need the pool of saidin to free the Dark One?  The Taint is immaterial to them, the Dark One protects them from it.  All they should really need is a sa'angreal.  Which would likely be even safer, as Aginor burned himself up trying to channel half of it, trying to wrest control of it from Rand. Meaning the giant Well that is the Eye lacks a buffer, where most angreal and sa'angreal have them.

 

The biggest problem with the Eye is that there's no good reason for the Shadow to be all that interested in it.  It's not holding back the Blight or interfering with the Shadow's influence.  The relics it protects, and even the storehouse of purified saidin are not directly useful to them, only by denying them to Team Light should they be of any interest at all.  And what's the point of Ishy's repeated insistence that he's going to "blind the Eye of the World?" What does that even mean, regarding something that doesn't see?  For that matter, why do young Borderlander warriors have a tradition of seeking the Eye?  Just to chill with the Green Man for a minute?

 

I reckon what we'll see is the legend of the Eye increased, along with its accessibility and use to Aes Sedai.  Include a legend that "to stand in sight of the Eye will reveal your true self" and a lot of minor plot holes can be sealed up, and make room for a bigger role for Logain in season one.  Give the Aes Sedai a tradition that any male who can channel that proclaims themselves the Dragon Reborn must be brought to the Eye to be tested before being gentled, and you can drag him along with the Amryiln Seat to Fal Dara, and gives them a better excuse to be there.  It gives a better reason for Borderlander youths to be risking their lives to seek it out.  It gives Moiraine a better reason for suddenly switching destinations besides a few dreams (that could be a goad/trap, and in fact were) and a couple of years-old stories, after she learns that Logain has been captured.  It gives a stronger motivation to the Shadow to want to "blind" it, so that the Dragon cannot be revealed to the Aes Sedai.  And it can explain why Rand is so proficient with a Power he didn't even know he could use, when he overpowers Aginor, wipes out the Trolloc army at Tarwin's Gap, and confronts Ba'alzamon/Ishamael, as the effects of such revelation could be an "Avatar-state" like effect on him.  And then, why later on, he's still fumbling around with the Power trying to learn.

 

Well the seals would be completely resistant to the True Power or anything tainted by the Dark one, or he could have broken out instantly.

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36 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

 

I'd go a totally different way entirely. 

Moiraine becomes increasingly uncomfortable with what's happening in Tar Valon vis-a-vis Logain. Most of this is initially hinted at (whispered conversations with Lan, notes from people, pigeons, etc.), but becomes more overt after Shadar Logoth.

 

When they reunite, Moiraine is able to partially heal Mat - but because of her distrust of the Tower she decides to seek the Green Man who has the power to heal Mat. This is made easier by the presence of Loial.

 

But this allows the writers to make Moiraine's motivation here slippery. She says she wants to find the Green Man because of Mat, but what she really needs is an answer about Rand that only the Green Man can give. So they venture to find the Green Man.

 

They're still chased - by darkfriends who overhear about the Green Man, know the legends, and want to seize the power for themselves. We have an epic battle during which the Green Man is killed.

 

As he dies, the Green Man becomes a pool of untainted saidin which Rand uses to channel and kill the attackers, but also opens him up to psychic attack by Ishy (only I think I'd make it Aginor instead) who is leading the forces at Tarwin's Gap.

 

Aginor (who has taken the Ishy role in Rand's dreams) and Rand battle inside Tel'aran'rhiod while the Borderlanders (who we haven't met) face off against a huge horde of Trollocs (who we have). Rand beats Aginor and the resulting explosion kills Aginor's Trollocs. 

 

The Dragon Banner, Horn, etc. are found in the Green Man's nest.

But Mat isn't healed. And now people are wondering whether Moiraine led them into a trap. Or whether she just wanted the Horn and the Banner for the Tower and is now going to sacrifice Rand.

 

The group heads for Fal Dara where it's been revealed the Amyrlin Seat is due to arrive on the heels of us having watched her gentle Logain. 

 

After this ending, it should be easy to understand Rand and Mat inherently distrust the Aes Sedai and why Rand starts to be such a dick to Moiraine. It will pull on the tension between Nynaeve wanting to reflexively take Egwene's side (gender tension!) and her desire to protect Rand and Mat from the "outsider". And it allows the audience to see Egwene become a total Tower fangirl.

 

Rather than playing up the lore - make choices that hardens the perspectives that shape these characters moving forward.

 

 

Too much fundamental change to the story IMO. I doubt they change the Eye very much if at all from the books

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1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

 

Well the seals would be completely resistant to the True Power or anything tainted by the Dark one, or he could have broken out instantly.

Not necessarily.  In fact, the Seals were made of cuendillar, nothing but the corrupting power of the Dark One should have ever been able to break or weaken them.  Trying to use untainted One Power on them should just make them stronger.  There's no good reason for the Forsaken to seek purified saidin in-universe, and if the idea is to preserve the books story beats as much as possible, Moiraine needs a better, more immediate reason to change destinations from Tar Valon to the Eye, and Suian needs a better reason to show up in Fal Dara in the following couple of weeks.

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3 hours ago, johnnysd said:

 

Too much fundamental change to the story IMO. I doubt they change the Eye very much if at all from the books


I’m curious as to which changes you find fundamental? From my perspective the only thing that really changes is that Moiraine proposes going to the Green Man because of Mat instead of her own mysterious backstory + Rand’s dreams + hearsay from an Aiel by way of Tinkers by way of Perrin. 
 

Is swapping Aginor (creator of the Trollocs and most of the shadowspan) for Ishamael and making the Green Man the vessel for untainted Saidin that much of a change?

 

Or is it the mechanics of the battle at the Eye? 

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56 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:


I’m curious as to which changes you find fundamental? From my perspective the only thing that really changes is that Moiraine proposes going to the Green Man because of Mat instead of her own mysterious backstory + Rand’s dreams + hearsay from an Aiel by way of Tinkers by way of Perrin. 
 

Is swapping Aginor (creator of the Trollocs and most of the shadowspan) for Ishamael and making the Green Man the vessel for untainted Saidin that much of a change?

 

Or is it the mechanics of the battle at the Eye? 

 

1. The pool of clean Saidin is created by the Aes Sedai of the AoL. This is important as it shows Rand that the taint can be removed which he later uses to cleanse it.

 

2. Your plot twist would not work without Moiraine lying. And she cannot. She is vague and cryptic but as an example Nynaeve would grill her and she would have to lie. Mat cannot be healed later in the Tower without revealing a lie. Your plot creates that paradox. 

 

3. Ishamael is way too important to the story to swap with Aginor for many  many reasons.

 

4. Rand NEEDS to actively channel at the eye and Tarwin's Gap. The Shieneran's SEE Rand. They know he is the Dragon Reborn and it sets up the entire arc of book 2 with Ingtar and later Masema. A random explosion does non of that.

 

5. It fundamentally changes Moiraines character. She is not the person you describe. She is willful and unbending and cryptic but never scheming.  

 

6. Aginor/Balthamel let readers/viewers know that the Forsaken are free. If Rand fights Aginor in the dream world this does not become obvious.

 

Look I know you think them going to the Eye is incredibly Vague (I don't-the audience won't care) and the events at the Eye don't sit well with you. I think you can add some dialogue and scenes to frame it even better especially for TV, but the Eye sets up so many things for later that this is not something that should be changed in the show, IMO

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14 hours ago, johnnysd said:

1. The pool of clean Saidin is created by the Aes Sedai of the AoL. This is important as it shows Rand that the taint can be removed which he later uses to cleanse it.

 

My alteration doesn't change this. It just changes the form of the Saidin into something kept by Somethsa.

 

14 hours ago, johnnysd said:

2. Your plot twist would not work without Moiraine lying. And she cannot. She is vague and cryptic but as an example Nynaeve would grill her and she would have to lie. Mat cannot be healed later in the Tower without revealing a lie. Your plot creates that paradox. 

 

Moiraine doesn't have to lie. "The Green Man possesses the power to heal Mat". It's not a lie. It's typical Aes Sedai deception, literally true but capable of multiple interpretations. Moiraine would brush off Nynaeve's questioning without batting an eyelash.

 

14 hours ago, johnnysd said:

3. Ishamael is way too important to the story to swap with Aginor for many  many reasons.

 

I'm not suggesting that Ishamael be eliminated. Far from it. But rather than having him "die" three different times only to be continually reincarnated, this change allows him to be the one manipulating things behind the scenes. 

 

14 hours ago, johnnysd said:

4. Rand NEEDS to actively channel at the eye and Tarwin's Gap. The Shieneran's SEE Rand. They know he is the Dragon Reborn and it sets up the entire arc of book 2 with Ingtar and later Masema. A random explosion does non of that.

 

I admit that my description sort of rushed past Tarwin's Gap. But I still mean for Rand to be actively channeling in the Gap - though I would have the mechanics of it work much differently.

 

14 hours ago, johnnysd said:

5. It fundamentally changes Moiraines character. She is not the person you describe. She is willful and unbending and cryptic but never scheming.  

 

Umm... 

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. But I'd point out that one of the major plot points for the entire series is Moiraine's (ahem) scheme with Siuan to find and shepherd the Dragon.

 

14 hours ago, johnnysd said:

6. Aginor/Balthamel let readers/viewers know that the Forsaken are free. If Rand fights Aginor in the dream world this does not become obvious.

 

Again, I guess I wasn't 100% clear. In my re-write Aginor is free. He is directing the Trollocs and Myrdraal that chase our heroes throughout the first season. He is in command of the forces at Tarwin's Gap. And he is also psychically attacking the Emond's field boys in the same manner that Ishamael does in the books.

 

But this is all subjective stuff. I get why you like the Eye. And why you don't want to change it. And I appreciate the lively discussion.

Edited by Elder_Haman
Corrected typos.

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1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

 

My alteration doesn't change this. It just changes the form of the Saidin into something kept by Somethsa.

 

 

Moiraine doesn't have to lie. "The Green Man possesses the power to heal Mat". It's not a lie. It's typical Aes Sedai deception, literally true but capable of multiple interpretations. Moiraine would brush off Nynaeve's questioning without batting an eyelash.

 

 

I'm not suggesting that Ishamael be eliminated. Far from it. But rather than having him "die" three different times only to be continually reincarnated, this change allows him to be the one manipulating things behind the scenes. 

 

 

I admit that my description sort of rushed past Tarwin's Gap. But I still mean for Rand to be actively channeling in the Gap - though I would have the mechanics of it work much differently.

 

 

Umm... 

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. But I'd point out that one of the major plot points for the entire series is Moiraine's (ahem) scheme with Siuan to find and shepherd the Dragon.

 

 

Again, I guess I wasn't 100% clear. In my re-write Aginor is free. He is directing the Trollocs and Myrdraal that chase our heroes throughout the first season. He is in command of the forces at Tarwin's Gap. And he is also psychically attacking the Emond's field boys in the same manner that Ishamael does in the books.

 

But this is all subjective stuff. I get why you like the Eye. And why you don't want to change it. And I appreciate the lively discussion.

 

I enjoy the conversation as well. I guess I am ok with changes to the story, consolidated characters, cut storylines etc...but I think that what GOT had it's first five years and what WoT needs is that it needs to still have certain major events in the story  even if they get there a slightly different way. I think the Eye is just one of those.

 

Others would be in first couple seasons:

 

Falme (including the horn, some have suggested cutting that..wtf?)

Egwene collaring and rescue

Waystones

Choeden'kal

 

Quick note: Teaser of Whitespring Inn on Twitter 

 

 

Looks Awesome if a bit blurry

 

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3 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Falme (including the horn, some have suggested cutting that..wtf?)

Egwene collaring and rescue

Waystones

Choeden'kal

 

This is a pretty good list.

I'm going to drop a long post soon about why Egeanin should be included...

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6 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

 

This is a pretty good list.

I'm going to drop a long post soon about why Egeanin should be included...

 

Egeannin is critical in my view

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You can't cut Falme. It will need minor adjusting, mainly putting another Foresaken in for Ishamael because at maximum you can have him die once as Ishy and come back as Moridin. Probably some minor elaboration on Rand's wounding so it's a tad less because plot. If someone doesn't want to see falme though, something's very very wrong.

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2 hours ago, mistborn82 said:

You can't cut Falme. It will need minor adjusting, mainly putting another Foresaken in for Ishamael because at maximum you can have him die once as Ishy and come back as Moridin. Probably some minor elaboration on Rand's wounding so it's a tad less because plot. If someone doesn't want to see falme though, something's very very wrong.

 

You could reveal Ishamael in Season 2 (I might combine him with Turak). Instead of Rand killing Ishy at Falme, he forces Ishy to flee getting mortally wounded. 

 

Rand can then kill Ishamael "for good" in the Stone. I'd put that confrontation at the mid point of Season 3 (you can write it so Ishamael seems to be the "season's villain, then subvert expectations).

 

And then I'd wait for a bit - Season 6 maybe - before doing the resurrection / Moridin reveal.

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On 9/8/2020 at 12:52 PM, johnnysd said:

 

Just so you know this is actually the real reason for them being there so it is not "new" for some reason Jordan decided to not reveal this until much later in the books

 

Apologies, but I do not understand what you're communicating here.

 

Maybe it's because I don't get what is meant by "The actual real reason" as you use it here. 

 

As a tenet, "Everything happens as it was supposed to because The Wheel/fate" precludes a lot of discussion on forums : )

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