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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Moiraine at the White Tower


Caroline
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It's clear she didn't have the angreal in New Spring, since she would of used it in her fight with the BA.  Also after the Dragon was reborn the companion goes on to say a lot of older Aes Sedai were dying (being killed off by the BA since they suspected only older and experienced Aes Sedai would be involved in the hunt).  This caused a big turnover in things like sitters.  So after a few years Moiraine leaving the tower without permission was a small thing, especially since from 972 to 988 when Siuan took over there had been three other Amirlyns.  With such a turnover Moiraine was hardly a big priority or going to be arrested on sight for leaving the tower as a young Aes Sedai without permission.  

 

Tamra Ospenya was Amyrlin when the dragon was reborn and wouldn't allow Siuan or Moiraine to go out on the hunt.  As the companion said Moiraine was held by Tamra's command to stay in Tar Valon and do various make-work.  With Tamra's death, Siuan and Moiraine  were freed to take part in the search, since each had a list of names to go by.  Moiraine went off alone because Siuan was being groomed to be the Blue' eyes and ears.

 

Sierin Vayu took over for Tamra but was assassinated by reds because she was about to put an end to the male channler program and then Marith Jean took over.

 

Siuan never said Moiriane has never returned in twenty years, just twenty years of planning and two messages since you left the tower.  But as someone else pointed out she never said when Moiraine last left the tower.  We know they have spoken since Moiriane left the tower because they spoke in New Spring.  Moiraine coming and going as she pleases, without asking the ajah head or anything, would also explain why she needs to be taught discipline.  It's unlikely after so long they would simply be upset about Moiraine leaving with out permission.  But Moiraine sneaking in or coming in and getting an angreal would or simply leaving without saying a word. 

 

Also it would seem a bit odd in that long of time Moiraine never gave one status update until saying she was going to the Two Rivers.  She probably sent where she was going each time so Siuan would at least know where to send any important messages through the Blue's eyes and ears.  No one seemed surprised she bonded Lan, so how would they know if she never contacted or been to the tower since she left?

 

 

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Also another make you wonder moment in TGH pg 322 Moiraine says "Before we left Tar Valon I made arrangements, should anything happen to me, for your bond pass to another".  So when was this?  We know it wasn't when she was at Fal Dara since she said we had no word of Lan leaving Fal Dara for any length of time, also highly unlikely she would ride to the WT and the ride back while beating the Amirlyn coming by ship.  

 

Since she slipped off again and the Amirlyn was annoyed, we know she didn't go there after leaving Fal Dara since there is no way she could of beaten the other Aes Sedai there.  They were going by ship and using the power to speed their journey, so no way Moiraine could of beaten them there.  Unless Lan and her snuck in the WT.  So when was Lan and her and the WT?

Edited by Sabio
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To Sabio:

 

I think you have already made clear that Moiraine visited the WT a few times while searching for a Dragon in previous posts.

It is no longer necessary to respond to another questioning , because who wants to keep to his "truth" ...

Edited by Elendir
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Just bringing it up since it's a moment I had forgotten all about, I had always assumed they left Fal Dara and went to the WT.   Since it would seem to fit, Moiraine knows Lan is in love and one day wants him to be with Nyn.   But this conversation got me thinking about how that wouldn't make any sense.

Edited by Sabio
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On 12/3/2019 at 11:55 PM, Sabio said:

 

Also another make you wonder moment in TGH pg 322 Moiraine says "Before we left Tar Valon I made arrangements, should anything happen to me, for your bond pass to another".  So when was this?  We know it wasn't when she was at Fal Dara since she said we and no word of Lan leaving Fal Dara for any length of time, also highly unlikely she would ride to the WT and the ride back while beating the Amirlyn coming by ship.  

 

 


good catch. I’d also forgotten completely about that. It states outright she had been back to the Tower (no Aes Sedai twisting). Of course it could have been after Fal Dara and before she ends up with Adelaes and Vandene. 
 

we know Moiraine did the pass-the-bond weave to Myrelle at some point, and per Myrelle she was specifically supposed to pass it to Nynaeve once she was raised to the shawl. Obviously she couldn’t have set up passing it to Nynaeve before going to Emonds Field. I always assumed she set up the bond passing before going to Emonds Field, then sent Myrelle a message after tEotW. 
 

at the risk of not supporting the Moiraine-returned-to the WT after NS viewpoint the quote could just show that Moiraine and LAN went to the WT after Fal Dara. Doesn’t make much sense since the Amyrlin and Co went straight to the WT from Fal Dara and Moiraine left them before they got there. 

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  • 4 months later...

Also, there is this, from tGS, chapter 13. Gawyn is sparring with two Warders, Sleete and Marlesh:

 

"Sleete carried a heron-mark blade and was near-legendary in the White Tower for his prowess. He was said to have bested even Lan Mandragoran twice out of seven bouts, back when Mandragoran had been known to spar with other Warders."

 

To me, that reads as though Moiraine has been back to the Tower in the past. More than once, really (back when Lan used to spar with the Warders, and then later on when he wasn't doing it anymore).

 

🤔🤷

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  • 5 months later...
On 12/2/2019 at 6:56 AM, Ryrin said:

Moirane left the Tower in New Spring with the angreal. The Tower not only wanted it back the Greens and Reds wanted her punished. The Greens agreed to let the Reds oversee it.

 

How did you ever get the idea that Moiraine took the angreal in NS? There is absolutely nothing in NS who supports this. On the contrary, if she did, it would be very weird that there is no mention of this in the book.

 

Should there be any doubt about the matter, however, this quote from the Eye of the World (chapter 8), proves that Moiraine took the angreal from the Tower sometime after NS (she is speaking to Rand about the angreal):

 

"We have lost the knowledge of how to make these", she said. "So much is lost, and perhaps will never be found again. There are so few left that the Amyrlin Seat almost did not let me take this one. It is good for Emond's Field and your father that she gave me her permission."


This Amyrlin was obviously not Sierin Vayu. She would never have allowed Moiraine to run off with this angreal in NS, as she had forbidden Moiraine to leave. By all probability this Amyrlin was Siuan Sanche.

 

Furthermore, we have this quote, earlier in the same chapter (after Rands mentions the Myrdraal to Lan and Moiraine):


"Had I known, when I left Tar Valon, that I would find Trollocs and a Myrddraal here*, I would have taken half a dozen of my sisters with me, even if I had to drag them by their necks."
*here = in Emond's Field.


When Moiraine left the Tower in NS, she was not in a position to take half a dozen sisters with her, and absolutely not to drag anyone by their necks. Neither was she going to Emond's Field at the time, and she had no clue that she would eventually end up there. So this "when I left Tar Valon" is sometime between NS and tEotW, probably a short amount of time before the beginning of the main series.

 

The strongest piece of evidence in my opinion is the fact that Siuan and Moiraine had been planning together for 20 years what they should do when they finally discovered the Dragon Reborn. And to think that "20 years of planning" only consisted of 2 messages is ridiculous and self-contradictory.

 

I found these quotes just by checking some of the early Moiraine scenes. If one were to reread the entire series, I believe one would find plenty such evidence. Some examples have been mentioned earlier in the thread, like Lan's warder cloak and his sparring with other warders.

Some evidence is undisputable, some circumstantial, all adding up to the fact that Moiraine visited the Tower at least once, but more likely several times, between NS and tEotW, reporting to and making plans with Siuan.

Edited by skazamat
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Don’t forget that Morraine also had another very strong reason to stay away from the WT in the early days, she had perhaps the strongest claim of anyone to the then empty throne of Cairhien and believed that the Tower was going to put her on that Throne.

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Yes, that was one of her main reasons for leaving the Tower in NS. The other reasons being the Aes Sedai hierarchy (not having reached her full potential with the OP yet) and of course the search for Rand.

 

After Galldrian Riatin took the Sun Throne and Moiraine reached her full potential she no longer had any reason to avoid the Tower/her sisters.

 

She still left the Tower for long periods of time to search for Rand, of course.

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12 hours ago, skazamat said:

Yes, that was one of her main reasons for leaving the Tower in NS. The other reasons being the Aes Sedai hierarchy (not having reached her full potential with the OP yet) and of course the search for Rand.

 

After Galldrian Riatin took the Sun Throne and Moiraine reached her full potential she no longer had any reason to avoid the Tower/her sisters.

 

She still left the Tower for long periods of time to search for Rand, of course.


The search took 20 years.

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Of course, the (almost) 20 year long span between NS and tEotW is canon.

 

But read my first post. Re-read relevant parts of the series. I think you will find that the 20 years of searching wasn't just 20 years with nonstop traveling outside the WT/Tar Valon.

Edited by skazamat
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It is possible that once Siuan was raised to Amyrlin, Moiraine was called back to the Tower to report whether or not the search was narrowed down, and plan the most likely location for the Dragon's location. That could have required a visit to the White Tower for a amount of time, like 8 months.

 

This would have meant that Lan sparred with other Warders for the first four months of their stay, then spent the other four months planning their journey. This would correlate with Gawyn's mention. During this part of the stay, Moiraine may have heard information of the progrom. That knowledge may have lead to her asking Siuan for an angreal.

 

Especially if the Black Ajah's previous activities  meant the Shadow was now looking for the Dragon, too. The both of them may have concluded the potential of Black Ajah being fought at some point on the search.

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16 hours ago, skazamat said:

Of course, the (almost) 20 year long span between NS and tEotW is canon.

 

But read my first post. Re-read relevant parts of the series. I think you will find that the 20 years of searching wasn't just 20 years with nonstop traveling outside the WT/Tar Valon.


You aren’t the first to say that. 🙂

 

I wonder how she could have hidden herself from Siuan, the Amyrlin, while in the Tower.

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