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Mat Bloody Cauthon

Mats Foxhead Medal.

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We know that saidar cannot affect the Foxhead, But what I want to know is can Saidin affect it? Or more importantly can the True source affect it? If not It could be A potent weapon against the DO. It may even be used to seal him up in the Bore again.

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I know for a fact that Saidin cannot affect it, that's why Rand and Arn'gar can't affect Mat with the One Power. As for the True Source, the only person I know who uses that is Moridin who's never met up with Mat to try it. I wouldn't think that it would work, cause otherwise the Finn really didn't fullfill Mat's wish. We do know that the medallion can be used as a weapon against Gholam. It could be used as a weapon against the DO but I kinda doubt that it will be. And I don't know if it will be necassary to use it to seal the prison.

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You mean the True Power, the True Source is the One Power. As to if it is stopped by the medallion... we simply dont know. We cannot even guess for there is no information to base it on. The fact that Mat asked the foxes for a way to be free of Aes Sedai doesn't mean that that way wont also stop the use of the True Power--RJ's said many times that you get more then you bargained for from the Foxes. And keep in mind also that Moridin was once an Aes Sedai, so it could be construed that mats request included him.

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Morridin was not Aes Sedai, Ishmael was.

By the time and situation where Mat finds out if it stops the TP, it ay be a little late for him, and the answer might have his life hanging in the balance.

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Moridin is numerically identical with ishamael, which is a philosophical way of saying that their personal identities are the same, thereby whatever experience ishamael had belongs now to Moridin, including the fact that he was once Aes Sedai.

 

Let me try and explain that... we are as human beings progressions of all our experiences, every instant what we were before is destroyed, and consumed into the new being that has been created by the experiences of that instant. There is also, in philosophy, and argument against this, in favour of a body form of identity, but since nothing remains of Moridins original inhabitant, in the scope of the stories we can dismis that idea, and thereby be forced to state that what makes moridin moridin is in fact the soul that the dark one placed there which is ishamael.

 

Then the question becomes; does ishamael own the experience of being aes sedai, and if he did, does moridin own it now?

 

This is what i was talking about with numerical identity. Essentially because in each instant we become a new identity we should say that no, we don't own that which we were, because we are that no more... but common sense denies this. As human being we continue. For ishamael to be exactly as he was when he was an aes sedai is impossible wether he lived or died, but that state of being is a part of who he is now, again, it would have been that way wether he lived or died, so there is some part of him that is now and will always be an Aes Sedai. The experience of death, like all other experiences, just added to this, it didn't invalidate it.

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The foxhead medallion DOESNT make the wearer inmune to saidin. Remember in FoH when Rand leads the Aiel+Aviendha+Mat against Rahvin in Caemlyn??? Remember when Rahvin channels lighting out of the sky and it gets Avi and Mat and they both die and then Rand brings them back to life by balefiring Rahvin (therefore making anything he did in the past void ie. the lighting)????

Well Mat was wearing his medallion then and he was TOAST!!!

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Guest Majsju

The lightning in Caemlyn can be compared to whe Elayne and the others found out that they can use Saidar to throw sticks and other things at Mat. It's indirect use of the power, and as such the medallion doesn't protect against it.

 

When Mat is in Salidar, Halima tries to channel directly at Mat, and her reaction clearly shows that it didn't work. Thus, the medallion protects against Saidin as well.

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RJ explained this somewhere... i think it had something to do with the channeling moving electrons, and how the movement of the electrons (i.e. the lightning) is an effect, not a cause. So yeah, pretty much what Maj said, its like flinging a chair at someone. But its been made clear that Mats medallion does in fact stop saidin.

 

Aditionnally this would explain the 'sparks' that hurt mat in KoD... you will recall that Joline is testing what gets through, she does the usual flinging dirt and all that, and then she does a spark weave... something that i suspect she learnt from Bethamin, because she used it on one of the aes Sedai a couple of chapters earlier... the same one, i believe, that the Aes Sedai first learn of the medallion.

 

This made me wonder if this 'spark' effect, which isn't in and of itself and effect of the power, is the same as that used in shocklances. We have the example of Asne's weapon, which RJ said was like a pistol version of a shocklance, which is described in much the same manner, additionally Asne says that it cannot be sensed by channelers... indeed, if we take a look at basic physics, this can potentially be rationalized.

 

Electrons can be insited into movement if given energy. In todays world an obvious example would be the photoelectric effect, whereby exposing electrons to a certain level of light will insite them to leave their mediam. In RJ's wheel, i suspect, rather then light the channelers are using the one power to give energy to the electrons.

 

The only question that remains, is wether or not this is how shocklances work... the fact that Asne seems convinced a channeler (to be fair, she said sister, so it may work on saidin or something) wouldn't sense anything. Aditionally several ter'angreal seem to be able of carrying out their function without any discernable display of one power usage... i begin to wonder if there is more aspects to the power then just saidin or saidar, or if maybe the two can be channeled absolutely as one, rather then as two halves... though that seems unlikely given all the evidence against it... including, no less, that that was the reason Lanfear saught out the Dark One...

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I think shocklances like laser blasters. And given the technologicly superiority of AoL they probally weren't connected to the OP any time after they were made, if then.

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What about the fact that the Golam(?) isn't affected by channeling, just like mat's terangreal? ie: Elayne tells Mat right after the ambush in Ebou Dar that the Golam absorbed the flows, just like mat's terangreal. Coincidence?

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I think in book 12 at a critical moment when one of the forsaken is about to screw things up bad for the Light side yet takes time out to boast about his/her brilliance Mat will surprise him/her by just walking through the One Power and killing him/her.

 

I don't think whether or not it nullifies the True Power will even come into it.

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Yes but Mat will have that dry look, casually walks through something and pow off goes their head.... That would be cool but I dont think so.

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It would be very cool... but the forsaken may by now know of him and his ability. Halima knew certainly, and whilst they dont always pass things on, she may have given the amount mat and perrin have been discussed recentlike.

 

As for the gholam, my belief is that both he and the medallion works on levels (of reality, or whatever. its just a way of terming it, it sounds stupid i know, but just go with it). Imagine the wheel is vertical, at the centre of it is the one power. Like the core of the planet or whatever. We call the highest level of the one power level 1. Say that normal people live on level 3. People with the ability to channel have, like, psychic arms or whatever that are three levels long so they can dip down into the power. Depending on just how long, you can judge their strength. Now Mat or Cads Madalion or hair pieces moves them slightly out of phase with their level (probably down towards level two, i will explain this in fades), no enough that they arn't still normally placed within the world, but enough that any channeling at them doesn't touch them because it in fact slips under or over them, disapearing into that other level.

 

Gholam work the same, though i suspect they are further out of phase and closer to level 1... maybe completely on level 2, because they can sense the use of the power. Similarily the Myrrdraal are also out of phase, this time even less then Mat and Cads, but they move upward towards level 4, and towards were reality starts to become thin, this is how they travel in shadows, i believe. (incidently, i believe that myrrdraal occur when the human genes in trollocs make a channeler... i.e. had they not been twisted, that child would have had the ability to channel, but because they were...)

 

Finally there are stedding... i believe these were twisted out of phase when the ogier first arrived in Rands world, and thats what makes them special.

 

Thats how i explain it to myself. theres certainly been some evidence of it in the books, but meh...

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Whoa Luckers... From philosophy to inner power workings in under three paragraphs. Beast.

 

I disagree on the identity thing, he had a different name. Saying rand once led the hundred companions and was the lord of the Morning wouldn't ocme out right, even tho theres a little deviation.

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The name is not the identity.

 

The most comprehensive understanding of identity present at the moment is that it is a relationship bewteen the progression of all your memories, your thoughts, your emotions and your sensations. This is combination of the Memory and Soul Theories of personal identity, if you wanted to look it up. There is another theory called the Body theory, which in our world is eqaully valid, but given what we know about Randland is invalidated, for it would mean the dark one would never have been able to rehouse Moridins soul, or that he would have a soul at all.

 

Moridin had all of ishamaels memories in sequential order. He has had memories since ishamaels death, but those follow progressively, just as would ishamaels memories had he not died, therefore as much as anyone can be ishamael, moridin is. Rand on the other hand has his own set of memories that informs who he is, the fact that he has some seepage of LTT's memories, out of context and with him aware that they arn't his, adds to him as Rand, but does not make him LTT. Rand and LTT are two seperate identities that affect each other, whilst Moridin is a progression of Ishamael's identity, just as ishamael is a progression of an earlier ishamael. They all have the same identity, just each with more added because of their experience. But moridin owns the part of him that was an Aes Sedai just as much as Ishamael did.

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Guest cwestervelt
It would be very cool... but the forsaken may by now know of him and his ability. Halima knew certainly' date=' and whilst they dont always pass things on, she may have given the amount mat and perrin have been discussed recentlike.

 

As for the gholam, my belief is that both he and the medallion works on levels (of reality, or whatever. its just a way of terming it, it sounds stupid i know, but just go with it). Imagine the wheel is vertical, at the centre of it is the one power. Like the core of the planet or whatever. We call the highest level of the one power level 1. Say that normal people live on level 3. People with the ability to channel have, like, psychic arms or whatever that are three levels long so they can dip down into the power. Depending on just how long, you can judge their strength. Now Mat or Cads Madalion or hair pieces moves them slightly out of phase with their level (probably down towards level two, i will explain this in fades), no enough that they arn't still normally placed within the world, but enough that any channeling at them doesn't touch them because it in fact slips under or over them, disapearing into that other level.

 

Gholam work the same, though i suspect they are further out of phase and closer to level 1... maybe completely on level 2, because they can sense the use of the power. Similarily the Myrrdraal are also out of phase, this time even less then Mat and Cads, but they move upward towards level 4, and towards were reality starts to become thin, this is how they travel in shadows, i believe. (incidently, i believe that myrrdraal occur when the human genes in trollocs make a channeler... i.e. had they not been twisted, that child would have had the ability to channel, but because they were...)

 

Finally there are stedding... i believe these were twisted out of phase when the ogier first arrived in Rands world, and thats what makes them special.

 

Thats how i explain it to myself. theres certainly been some evidence of it in the books, but meh...[/quote']

 

RJ has RAFO'd concerning Gholam and Stedding... Maybe Mat leads it into an certain abandoned one while on route to or from the the Tower of the Ghengi.

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Woa!!!

Luckers i reckon your Moridin/Ishamael!!! With all your philosophical theories you could be the DO right hand man easy!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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