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jsbrads

Moraine’s Warder Bond Breaks

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How did this happen? There is a second door still in Tear, the Tower, and what possible distance causes a break?

Verin’s traveling the Worlds of If didn’t break her warder bond. Book 2

Edited by jsbrads

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I don't recall which was which but Moiraine went to one place and the door burned but the door in Tear leads somewhere else, the snakes I believe and the tower isn't really open.

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The door in Tear leads to the same world as the door from Rhuidean. When Mat enters the metal spire he crosses thru both of their territories. It is even in the same building. 

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I think it was said when you were in their world you can't trust what you see or distance.  Both doors don't lead to the same spot a door specifically leads to fox or snake.  Entering through the tower allows you to go to either place.  The companion does say the snakes inhabit a parallel world and the foxes true location is unknown.  But my guess is both live in separate worlds connected by the tower.

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It is clear from Mat’s Adventure that both live on one world, in one building and they are the same species. He walks from one to the other. 

The doors bring a person from our world to their’s. One doorway dials into one receiving room, the other doorway dials into another receiving room.

The tower is a third access, a third door. How one chooses to where it opens is less clear, tho Mat was close to where he wanted to be, so intent might take someone to where they want to be. 

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On 3/7/2019 at 2:52 AM, jsbrads said:

How did this happen? There is a second door still in Tear, the Tower, and what possible distance causes a break?

Verin’s traveling the Worlds of If didn’t break her warder bond. Book 2

 

Once we realize that Moiraine didn't actually die when she fell through the doorway makes one wonder what is it about the World of the Finn that causes her warder bond to break. Like you say, Verin's warder bond doesn't break when she's traveling through different worlds. Is it because those worlds are parallel worlds, while maybe the world of the Finn is completely different. But then that raises other questions.

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It must have something to do with the door being destroyed, Verin traveling was different since she was trying to go from one spot to another in the same world.  Rand messing it up caused issues.  We know Moiraine entering the door in Tear didn't break the warder bond.  So it has to be either the door was destroyed thus breaking the bond or what she was channeling when she went in the door with Lanfear.  Clearly what Lanfear and Moiraine were channeling had some bad effect since it set the door on fire.

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There were still two other links. The door in Tear and the Tower itself. The destruction of the third door should have no impact.

People knowing where the elves inside the Tear doorway are, but not knowing where the elves inside the Rhuidean doorway makes sense, because that doorway was lost for 3000 yrs. 

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Your link depends how you get in, she went through that doorway so that's her link, once to door broke it snapped her link.    I look at it like this if you tie a rope around your waist and walk in the doorway in tear, you walk in and leave the rope is still intact.  Tie a rope around your waist then walk in and doorway breaks, your rope is cut in half.  Your link is gone.  The different doorways that take you to different spots, so how can her link still be available for a doorway she never entered for a different race of beings?  Not to mention the tower there is no way out unless you make an exit, so you can't expect the tower to keep her link.

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Thinking more physics, and it working more like a stargate. A person is dematerialized and once the whole body is thru, the person is teleported via a wormhole. But since it is an energy transmitter the throat of the wormhole only needs to be large enough to allow the energy and the data. 

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Did Moraine intentionally fake her death?

ie, the bond didn’t break, Moraine passed the bond before she launched herself at Lanfear. Lan was unconscious so he wouldn’t have noticed. And no one else would have either. 

She may have known she had to convince Rand not to come after her and her apparent death was the easiest way to accomplish it. 

Moraine may have also know Nynaeve needed Lan so she could have the wherewithal to help Rand. 

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Actually a really interesting theory, but Lan was suffering the effects of losing his Aes Sedai. The fact he was suffering from that means it wasn't her simply releasing it.  His new Aes Sedai was bedding him and stuff to try and keep him alive.

 

I feel RJ made a mistake with Moraine having the bond transfer.  She told Lan about it in book 2, it would of made more sense for her to do it after going through the doorway and entering Rhudiean.

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Very good point. I can only say it is possible, not likely, that a bond transferred has some of the effects of a bond breaking.

And for Lan who presumes Moraine died, would feel the loss keenly as he spent 20+ yrs at her side, bond or no. 

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On 5/24/2019 at 6:55 PM, Sabio said:

I feel RJ made a mistake with Moraine having the bond transfer.  She told Lan about it in book 2, it would of made more sense for her to do it after going through the doorway and entering Rhudiean.

Why do you say that? She knew the quest she was on was extremely dangerous, and that was before she knew the Forsaken were loose and that she'd have to face a couple of them. Making the arrangement to pass Lan's bond seems like a reasonable precaution even in book 2. Look how close she came to being consumed by the draghkar! I don't remember however, if she did it before or after she knew Lan and Nyaneave loved each other. If she already knew, then she was not only ensuring he didn't die from losing her, but also that he would continue the fight against the Dark One as Nyaneave's warder.

 

 

On 5/26/2019 at 2:45 PM, jsbrads said:

And for Lan who presumes Moraine died, would feel the loss keenly as he spent 20+ yrs at her side, bond or no. 

Yes, but without the bond it would more like a husband mourning his wife, and most people don't go crazy with grief when they lose their spouse like a warder does when he loses his Aes Sedai.

 

Have you ever wondered why the loss of his Aes Sedai is harder on a warder than the reverse? I know they mourn deeply for months to years, but they don't go crazy and lose the will to live or die trying to avenge their warder's death. Perhaps the OP gives them the strength to carry on.

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Well I think by book 2 she knew Lan cared for Nyn, my guess is she could probably tell through the bond.  Just seemed odd timing to me for her to already plan for Lan to be Nyn's warder around book 2.  To where she was going to pass him to someone to pass to Nyn.  I don't remember if the Aes Sedai she was going to pass Lan to was even part of the delegation to Shinear.  Which would lead to when did she do it?  The timing of that seemed rather early. In Tear she knew for sure Lan loved Nyn, that's when such a plan would of made more sense or after she knew for sure she was going to fight Lanfear.

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19 hours ago, Sabio said:

Well I think by book 2 she knew Lan cared for Nyn, my guess is she could probably tell through the bond.  Just seemed odd timing to me for her to already plan for Lan to be Nyn's warder around book 2.  To where she was going to pass him to someone to pass to Nyn.  I don't remember if the Aes Sedai she was going to pass Lan to was even part of the delegation to Shinear.  Which would lead to when did she do it?  The timing of that seemed rather early. In Tear she knew for sure Lan loved Nyn, that's when such a plan would of made more sense or after she knew for sure she was going to fight Lanfear.

So it's the fact that she was already planning to have the other AE (name?) pass the bond to Nyaneave that you think was premature? I am trying to remember if that part of the plan was hinted at in TGH. (Geez, I just finished reading it again a couple of weeks ago!) I think it did.

I recall Moiraine almost walking in on Lan and Nyaneave's conversation in book 2, just before they left Shienar, so yeah, I am sure she had to feel it through the bond because Lan's emotions would have been quite strong at that time. She saw Nyaneave walk away from him, so if she didn't know it before then, it would have been easy to deduce.

The book never named all of the Aes Sedai who accompanied Suian to Shienar, so perhaps we are meant to assume the one Moiraine made the agreement with was there.

I still maintain however, that she knew her quest of guiding the Dragon Reborn to the Last Battle was going to be the most dangerous thing she had ever done in her life, so it made perfect sense for her to make the arrangement when she did.

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Yes, just seemed really early for Moiraine to be planning that to me.  When Moiraine told Lan about the bond passing she mentioned something about maybe a newly raised Aes Sedai might have need of him (forget exact words), then he angrily said something about so you plan for me to be passed twice.  So she clearly meant for him to be Nyn's warder down the road.  Just seemed too early to me for her to hatch such a plan.  I can understand her knowing death may come at anytime, but after arriving in Tear after the near death encounters and knowing for sure Lan loved Nyn.  The bond passing thing would of seemed better.  Or maybe after the draghkar attack she does it before going to Falem.

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I think it is just that Moiraine is that perceptive, as well as very wise. Her greatness is due to much more than just her strength in the power. Something I just thought about, there could have been something in one of Min's viewings of Lan of which we were not told. Moiraine had met Min before they stopped in Baerlon in TEotW.

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