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Which characters do you dislike and why?


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LOL ... as if love and hate are logical, Zardi ...

 

Nerevar's first post admits there was nothing Lan could have done. I quote, adding emphasis:

 

I still dislike Lan for not being able to do something to help her.

 

Sure there was nothing Lan could have done. That doesn't stop irrational people who love Moiraine from hating him for his inability.

 

Understand, Nerevar, I'm not insulting you. All people are irrational to a degree, especially in who we love and hate.

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For many of the same reasons as everyone else, Egwene irritates me to no end. I had no beef with her in the earlier books, but as soon as she began breaking rules left, right and centre just to satisfy her damn thirst for knowledge, I could no longer empathise with her. Arrogant doesn't even begin to describe her, thinking she knows better than the Wise Ones and all.

 

Nynaeve was also decent at first, but her anger issues increased exponentially with each book to the point where it's just become ludicrous. There's nothing wrong with a hot-headed character but Nynaeve's taken things to a ridiculous level. I find that I can't take her seriously anymore. Everyone else, I enjoy reading about.

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I don't really need that emphasis, RAW, thanks. I read Nerevar's entire post the first time. I still think my question was fair. Lots of people failed to save Moiraine, and had various reasons for their failure, but only Lan has become the object of hatred. I was just curious as to why he is more to blame than the others, in the eyes of Nerevar. There must be a reason, whether it is a "logical" reason or not, and I just wanted to know what it is, even if it ends up making no sense to me.

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Lots of people failed to save Moiraine, and had various reasons for their failure, but only Lan has become the object of hatred. I was just curious as to why he is more to blame than the others, in the eyes of Nerevar.

 

Well ... obviously I can only guess, but Lan is the only one who is her Warder, sworn to protect her. So, fair or not, he gets the blunt end of the stick, so to speak.

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Could be that that is Nerevar's reason, but maybe not. That's why I was asking

 

Actually ... to be technical, you didn't ask "why blame Lan" the first time, you asked "what could he have done?". Since Nerevar had already answered that "what" question in a completely illogical fashion (he said, "he should have learnt to channel on the spot and over powered Lanfear", look two posts above your "what should he have done?") I assumed that your question was meant to point out the inconsistency of his answer, not to seek an answer that had already been clearly given. To that end, my comment was intended to show that Nerevar was almost certainly aware of the inconsistency of his? her? position, and that seeking an answer on that basis was pointless, since it had already been given.

 

Does that make me a pompous ass? Quite possibly. But then, I've never been popular with the ladies, Zardi, so you're in good company.

 

I do feel compelled to point out, however, that it is ironic that you felt obligated to point out to me that you didn't need my emphasis, because you had read Nerevar's post, but that you either missed or ignored the other entire post, which preceded your question, but gave you the answer to what you actually asked.

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Actually ... to be technical, you didn't ask "why blame Lan" the first time, you asked "what could he have done?". Since Nerevar had already answered that "what" question in a completely illogical fashion (he said, "he should have learnt to channel on the spot and over powered Lanfear", look two posts above your "what should he have done?")

I asked again because I thought Nerevar was joking with that answer. As you say, it's completely illogical, so I didn't think he/she was being serious. Perhaps I didn't word my question as exactly as I could have, but what I was getting at is why Nerevar is blaming Lan for what happened when he couldn't possibly have prevented it.

 

I do feel compelled to point out, however, that it is ironic that you felt obligated to point out to me that you didn't need my emphasis, because you had read Nerevar's post, but that you either missed or ignored the other entire post, which preceded your question, but gave you the answer to what you actually asked.

Again, I thought Nerevar was joking. I was not ignoring the post.

 

But then, I've never been popular with the ladies, Zardi, so you're in good company.

What? I am a "lady" myself. Is this sarcasm?

 

What is your problem here? I have remained in good humor in this thread, and I'm only wondering where Nerevar's opinion comes from. I thought his/her response about Lan learning to channel was an attempt at a joke, which is why I asked for clarification again. I'm not picking on Nerevar. You usually seem logical and intelligent on these boards, so why are you picking at this so much? It's so minor...am I missing something here, or are you just looking for a fight? I have not wronged you in any way, so lay off.

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From reading other people's responses, I think i've been reading the books from a different perspective (but that's the glory of the written word - personal opinion). I love Min, she's considerate to Rand, and Aviendha is in his thoughts for her fiery nature, and Elayne is surely beautiful and was the first to catch his eye - she's a little annoying from time to time, but nothing I can't put up with. Lan, I respect and am so glad he finally melted for Nynaeve, and Nynaever herself if you read her carefully enough, is simply afraid to embrace the world for fear it won't accept her and her insecurities (I can surely appreciate that). I dont think there is really anyone I dont like... Cadsuane perhaps, but mainly because I dont know her intentions (I havent read book 10 yet... no spoilers please!)

 

Have I missed something in the books?

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Do you mean, have you missed something about why certain characters are disliked?

 

I'll try to summarize the reasons I've seen people give for each of the characters you've mentioned (hopefully without giving spoilers ;) )

 

Min: some people think that Min gave up her life to follow Rand around like a lost puppy, they think she's useless, they think she has no personal goals, etc.

 

Aviendha: I'm not sure here...I've not really seen anyone who dislikes her. It's possible someone said so in this thread and I missed it, though (or forgot about it).

 

Elayne: her plotline for the last several books has been boring (you'll soon see 8) ), her arrogance, she treated Mat horribly while in Ebou Dar, she arguably made a very reckless decision in a future book (again, you'll see), she confused Rand with the two letters business in book 4, she arguably blames Rand for something which I'm not sure you know about yet (I can't remember if it's revealed in book 9 or 10), she spends too much time talking about baths and dresses...I think that's it.

 

Lan: Also not sure. Nerevar is the first person I've seen who dislikes Lan.

 

Nynaeve: her treatment of Mat in Ebou Dar, her general moodiness, her hypocrisy and a certain amount of arrogance...that's all I can think of.

 

Cadsuane: I thought her intentions were revealed before book 10, but I may be wrong about that. Other reasons people don't like her is because she slapped Rand once, because she...did something else once that you haven't read yet, because she provoked Rand when they first met, and because she generally seems rough with Rand (the way she speaks with him).

 

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with these reasons, they're just the ones I remember seeing.

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What? I am a "lady" myself. Is this sarcasm?

 

Yes, I know. What I meant was, is no surprise that you're much like the ladies who know me in real life: irritated by my presence.

 

What is your problem here? I have remained in good humor in this thread, and I'm only wondering where Nerevar's opinion comes from. I thought his/her response about Lan learning to channel was an attempt at a joke, which is why I asked for clarification again. I'm not picking on Nerevar. You usually seem logical and intelligent on these boards, so why are you picking at this so much? It's so minor...am I missing something here, or are you just looking for a fight? I have not wronged you in any way, so lay off.

 

You know, it funny ... but after my initial response, and your response to my response, thats exactly what I was thinking about you. My initial comment "LOL ... as if love and hate are logical, Zardi ... " was meant to be lighthearted and funny. Obviously I failed utterly, but that is not unusual.

 

What I failed to understand was that, knowing that Nerevar's post was a joke, you would still ask for a reason. When Nerevar posted that, to me, it seemed to say "I know there is not an actual reason here, so I'm posting something ridiculous as a way of acknowledging that". There is no reason, and Nerevar knew it. So, there is no reason that I can understand for you to ask the question that you did, which led me to the conclusion that you either didn't see or didn't understand the meaning behind Nerevar's post, since you asked a question with either no answer (in literal terms) or that had already been answered (in figurative terms). Obviously, I mistook your intentions.

 

You responded to what I thought of as an attempt to be helpful with what I interpreted as annoyance. (I don't really need that emphasis, RAW, thanks.) I apparently mistakenly read a bit of a bite in that extraneous "thanks" and attempted to clarify the reason for my response, in a way that, I admit, had a bit of its own bite.

 

In short, this short treatise may help clarify to you, and any and all other women who know me, why you all find me irritating.

 

If not, then it proves that all the women who say "men are easy to understand" are just dating boring men.

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Yes, I know. What I meant was, is no surprise that you're much like the ladies who know me in real life: irritated by my presence.

I'm not irritated by you in general :P You're a good debater and knowledgeable about WoT. I was only irritated by some of the things you said, because I thought you were picking apart my post for no reason (though I now understand your reason).

 

You know, it funny ... but after my initial response, and your response to my response, thats exactly what I was thinking about you. My initial comment "LOL ... as if love and hate are logical, Zardi ... " was meant to be lighthearted and funny. Obviously I failed utterly, but that is not unusual.

We both misunderstood each others intentions, it seems. More proof that forums are severely lacking as a communication tool.

 

What I failed to understand was that, knowing that Nerevar's post was a joke, you would still ask for a reason.

Fair enough. I should have worded the question differently, maybe something like, "If you admit Lan couldn't do anything, then why do you hold it against him?"

 

Possible responses that I thought I might get:

1. I haven't thought about it, but it's just a feeling I have.

2. Because he's her warder, so I feel it's his fault if something happens to her.

3. Lan is her warder, so he should have noticed that Moiraine was acting funny, and should have taken precautions before they got to the dock, even though he couldn't do anything right then. (This even has some logical merit, in my opinion, though I do not think it would have helped. Moiraine knew that she needed to fall through the doorway, and she would have made it happen no matter what.)

4. I told a joke because I know I have an unpopular opinion, and I didn't want to get into a debate.

5. I didn't remember that Lan had been knocked unconscious, though I recognize that he could not have helped in that particular battle with only his sword, which is why I joked about him channeling.

 

In any case, my second asking of the question was meant to be light-hearted, and I wasn't trying to pick on Nerevar. I was just trying to get at why he/she is holding it against Lan that he didn't do anything (with an admittedly bad question).

 

I apparently mistakenly read a bit of a bite in that extraneous "thanks"

Apologies, the bite was unintentional. Your comment that I was responding to seemed condescending under the circumstances (since Nerevar's post was so short), but I added the "thanks" in case I was wrong and you were genuinely trying to help. Apparently it didn't work the way I wanted it to :P

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Guest Anonymous!
Trakand01 wrote:

I dont think there is really anyone I dont like... Cadsuane perhaps, but mainly because I dont know her intentions (I havent read book 10 yet... no spoilers please!)

 

I’m a little confused by this statement. We know exactly what Cadsuane’s intentions are. She intends to gain control of the Dragon Reborn so he will fight the Final Battle as she sees fit. We learn her intentions from her very first PoV in ACoS:

 

ACoS, Chapter 19 (last two pages of the chapter):

“The al’Thor boy needed to be kept intrigued enough that he allowed her near him, and off-balance enough that she could nudge him where she wanted without him realizing. One way or another, anything that might interfere with that must be controlled or suppressed. Nothing could be allowed to influence him, or upset him, in the wrong way. Nothing.

… (Some descriptions about servants)…

“I may skin Elaida when I can lay hands on her,” she said as the coach lurched into motion. “That fool child has made my task nearly impossible.”

And then she laughed so abruptly that Daigan stared before she could control her eyes. Corele’s smile widened in anticipation. Neither understood, and she did not try to explain. All of her life, the fastest way to interest her in anything had been to tell her it was impossible. But then, over two hundred and seventy years had passed since she last encountered a task she could not perform. Any day now might be her last, but young al’Thor would be a fitting end to it all.”

 

Cadsuane is just another Aes Sedai with delusions of grandeur. She honestly believes she is so important that the only suitable way for her to die is by controlling the Dragon Reborn. She establishes that she wishes to alienate all of the people (and remove any other influence) in the Dragon Reborns life to the point where he will follow her intentions. She wishes to exert her will over Rand, and for the Dragon Reborn to do as SHE wishes in the coming Last Battle. This quote is the filter that I used to understand all of Cadsuane’s actions after this point. As far as I can see she is succeeding. She has managed to force everyone Rand trusts away or has suppressed them. The ONLY exceptions are Logain (who Rand doesn’t trust) and *EDIT* (Sorry trakand01 I thought you said you hadn't read book 11 yet. Sorry again)

 

 

The Characters I don’t like:

 

Cadsuane: For her poor character development and inconsistencies within her own established history. Plus she is not a nice person. I have no idea how Jordan honestly believes a person who insults, demeans, or brushes aside everyone is a positive archetype. This concept of a Maiden Aunt is completely lost on me.

 

Egwene: Well, mainly her luck. She is not a Ta’veren, and she has had better luck in gaining her position of power than Mat and Perrin. What really annoys me is in spite of her blundering she has not suffered to the degree that Rand, Mat, and Perrin have for their successes and triumphs. Plus all of those naked beatings, and running around naked from TSR and TFoH really irked me. Her personality is tolerable.

 

Elayne: I do not like the fact that a character that didn’t get a PoV until TSR, has since had more PoV’s in various books then the original main characters from TEotW - TDR including Rand (in CoT and KoD), Mat (in CoT and TPoD), Perrin (in WH, TPoD, and TFoH), Egwene (TPoD and WH) and Nynaeve (KoD, CoT, WH, and TPoD). Plus most of the baths, tea parties, dress descriptions, and other useless filler appear in her PoV’s. Add to the fact that her nose is stuck so far up in the air that the back of her head is touching her heels.

 

Faile: Mainly because I don’t see a need for her PoV’s. Especially associated with her kidnapping storyline. All of the PoV’s (Sevanna, Galina, Faile, etc.) associated with the build-up to, the actual abduction, and events up to her rescue, have been essentially useless since nothing of value came out of those scenes. As it stands the only thing of value has been a tertiary character successfully channeled (Morgase) and Galina and another oath rod is with the Shaido who are heading back to the Aiel Waste. Oh and Faile is a bit too moody for my taste, which was okay when I didn't have the view the world through her eyes.

 

The Characters I do like:

 

Tam

Thom

Ingtar

Pre-KoD Siuan (only descent Amyrlin out of the three we have seen in this series)

Mat, though some of his scenes are tough to read.

That’s it. I used to like Rand and Perrin before LoC, but now I’m neutral toward them.

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Hrrmmmm . . . well, here it goes:

 

Characters I don't like:

 

The Ael'finn/Eel'finn: Not because they are "evil" (in the manner that they're just not human enough to be described any other way), not because they've held Moiraine captive, or anything like that. It's because people keep using them to justify theories with the only explanation being, "We don't know how they do what they do, so they must be omnipotent." Grrr.

 

Elayne: Only her PoVs, I wouldn't mind her character one bit if I didn't have to keep seeing the world through her eyes. For the love of the Light, woman! Learn some common sense!

 

Faile: Same thing, she brings out both the best and the worst of Perrin, so I like that, but I wish I didn't have to be inside her head.

 

Tuon: Mat really deserved to be married to a hotter Daughter of the Nine Moons. That's my only reason.

 

Characters I do like:

 

Pedron Niall: Was always one of my favorite characters. I shed a single, solitary tear when I read his death scene.

 

Perrin: When he's at his most overcome with emotion.

 

Mat: All the time, though less since he's been around Tuon.

 

Rand: He's still the most ridiculously conflicted and flawed character in the series, and that's WHY I can't get enough of him. The inner turmoil is just so compelling.

 

And also: Lan, Rhuarc, Elyas, Ingtar, Dobraine, Nynaeve, Verin, Moridin/Ishmael, Lanfear/Cyndane, Graendal, Sammael, Demandred, Fain, Ituralde, Loial, Tam, Damer Flinn, Siuan, Gareth Bryne, and others.

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HI

The worse two:

Nynaeve Al'Meara and Elaida!

 

Elaida is obvious but I hated Nynaeve since the first time she showed up in the first book! Maybe it's because I'm over 5 decades old but I do not like to see YOUNGSTERS thinking they're wiser or better than those who have life experiences to back them up. Nynaeve just seems like such a know it all.

 

Plus Moraine is my fav character...and I feel like Nynaeve took all the focus off my Moraine!

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I'm reading KoD atm. This is the first time i have seen why people don't like Elayne. She really is a bitch.

 

She complains that rand put the babies in her all the time - 'its all rands fault'. She was the one that basically made him share her bed.

 

Also she complains that others don't let her do stuff, but I feel its obvious she would do the same if Birgitte or Aviendha were pregnant.

 

I know its mainly the hormones, but I sigh in annoyance when I finshish a chapter - oh joy yet another chapter about Elayne and all it covers is her complaining - (though discovering Aviendha could 'read' ter'angreal was a cool chapter. - (In fact thats the point Im up 2)

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why did I read this whole post? I never really had a problem with any of the characters in the books, but after reading this I started to hate both Egwene and ELayne. Thanx people :wink:

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I have to be cliche, I hate Faile with a passion. For the same reason someone else posted, Perrin was my favorite character in books 1-3, I honestly wish he had not returned to the series in book 6 (yes I know the ramifications to Rand). Perrin now reminds me of the good buddy you used to have who would do anything for you and was always there with an open ear to help with anything you might need. Then came the girlfriend, and suddenly he doesn't show up quite so often for your weekly get togethers with your buddies. He then introduces you, you can see he's infatuated with this bitch, but neither you nor any of your friends can see why. Then, slowly but surely he fades from everyone's life. Another one bites the dust.

 

I hope Faile dies shortly into AMOL, which causes Perrin's crazed wolf rage attack and eventual death, taking someone important down with him. More importantly though, I hope Faile dies doing something unimportant and stupid, a meaningless, painful death would be good.

 

Ooh ooh, heres a good idea, Rand uses the Choedan Kal to Balefire Faile so far back that Perrin forgets her and becomes a cool character again.

 

BTW, I am married and still maintain a good relationship with all my buddies, sure compromises must be made, but I refuse to push everything from my life to make room for my wife, nor would she ever have it that way.

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