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Pick one thing that you'd change and why

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12 hours ago, Vambram said:

I realize that I am probably in the minority of WOT fans here on dragonmount when I say this. However, I remember when I read AMOL and the introduction of the Sharans being led by Demandred that I was absolutely thrilled at such a revelation. Personally speaking, I was glad that RJ and Sanderson held the Sharans back for such a huge and important part of the story. Without the Sharans, I believe that the forces of Light armies could have rather easily defeated the trolloc armies and the dreadlords. 

I actually agree with this. I really liked it when they came out of nowhere because it makes sense that they would be doing something during the last battle and we just hadn't heard anything about them in the last while. Why wouldn't a forsaken be over there, particularly with Demandred having been broadcasted as being off the map during the last few books.

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I think the Sharans showing up was not set up well. I like being surprised, but it can’t be cheap. There have to be clues I missed that are like glowing arrows after the fact but could have meant something else when first read. I still find no foreshadowing of an entire Sharan army. 

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Hey everyone. This is my first post and I figured this would be a good place to start. I've been chewing on this thread for well over a week, and as I am towards the end of book 5 in my first reread, I have a few things that I would potentially change.  These 3 things I feel are connected to some extent. 

 

I should probably mention that I will probably not articulate this nearly as well here as I have in my head over the last week, but I will try.

 

1. Logain 

 

Ever since we meet him in the Tower after being gentled and Min had her viewing of him, I was rooting really hard for him to have a major part or impact in the story. So obviously it follows that I was pretty disappointed in what became of him. I think he was severely underdeveloped and had so much potential .Maybe having him be the one to defeat Taim during the Last Battle. I really dont think his fulfillment of Min's viewing in AMoL fits with her description in FoH ( glory above all men). He does get a bit of redemption with his actions at the end.

 

2. A powerful male channeler as a sidekick to Rand

 

I understand that Mat and Perrin kind of fill this role( and maybe even Nynaeve to a certain extent) but I always wished Rand had a sidekick that he could confide in and share his experiences with.   This is where I think points 1 and 3 tie in.

 

3. One of the Forsaken flipping

 

In the first few books, its somewhat of a common theme that "No one is so lost that he cannot be brought to the Light" or some several iterations of that.  Naturally, Asmodean was a prime candidate for that.  I think Lanfear and Moridin were as well, but to a lesser extent and for different reasons.   It seemed like Jordan was leading towards Asmodean having a much bigger role before his thread was cut.   With the emphasis on redemption early on in the series, I think this would have been a great avenue to explore in regards to the Forsaken.   Even if Asmodean didnt survive until the end, I think having him eventually flip and maybe dying doing something heroic to save Rands' life or of Rands' companions would have had a nice touch. Having a former Forsaken at Rands side doing battle would have been epic.

 

 

To be fair, I am happy with WoT how it is and I dont necessarily think that these suggestions would make the series better.   They could very well break it for all I know.  These are are just things I remember wishing and hoping for when I first read through the series.

 

 

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I would change the constant adversarial nature of interpersonal interaction among the WoT characters. Even among friends, particularly male to female, female to male, there is almost always an undercurrent of contention and a battle for control.

Edited by Artemisia1

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If I could change just one thing about the books it would have to be doing something about the Seanchan.

I don't mean them as a society, I am perfectly fine having an evil empire. But there are simply too many plot holes at work. First, of course, is the a'dam. Every woman in Seanchan tries one on, but it misses perfectly half of the channelers. It will catch the damanes, yet not the suldam. But then it does catch a suldam, but only if she has been using the other end of it to control damane. Until the large plot hole of it catching women on this side of the ocean who have never worn an a'dam or channeled. The a'dam seems to me one of the things Jordan messed up on early and never retconned.

And that is just the tip of the iceberg to how poorly they are written. Next is their strange superstitions and lack of a higher education, which is simply an irksome area, not really a huge plot hole.

But then enter Tuon, the least likable character to ever have lived. Now, we all know the laws of Seanchan quite well; Tuon is marath'damane, and yet refuses to be collared. It does not matter if she is capable of channeling on her own at the moment, the law requires her filthy self to be collared, and she refuses to do so. As a matter of fact, each and every suldam must be collared, and she refuses to see this done. For all of her talk about "the Empress IS the Empire, may She live forever!" she has no regard for the laws of her empire because she is far too selfish and too big a coward to enforce her own laws.

And let's be honest, for how religiously most Seanchan follow their laws there is no doubt that the empire would immediately collapse knowing that their entire lives have been a sham.

Except that they would have noticed the sham far earlier if not for the gaping plot hole about the a'dam not working consistently. If it catches a fifteen year old girl without the spark on this side of the ocean, it should pick up an eighteen year old without the spark over in Seanchan.

 

So I am fine with how ridiculous the Seanchan are. That's fine. Makes it that much better when the empire dissolves (as we all know such a joke will) in a generation. But the a'dam created too many holes that I can't look past. So if I could change anything it would be to fix those errors.

 

Otherwise I'd just dump the Seanchan altogether as they are simply ridiculous.

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Instead of Rand imagining the world without DO, he could have woven a prison that is invisible. Before last book, I thought I knew how it would end.

Meirin wasn’t lying, she comes to the Light, helps Rand understand that the original prison was woven thru the cells of the tree of Life. Then Meirin dies in the last battle saving Rand, gets tied to the wheel.

Only Nynaeve can figure out and weave the prison, working with Rand.

The Aiel return to the Way of the Leaf. They travel all the lands planting Trees of Life. The Aiel can travel anywhere, greeted with respect. Everyone likes the Trees.

No one knows the Trees are focus of the prison. Walking under the tree, feels a little like walking into a stedding, the air seems fresher, stress dissipates, it is not like an overdose of Valium.

Galad doesn’t die. He marries Berelain.

Elaida’s Tower becomes the new Black Tower, but both Ashaman and Aes Sedai spend almost equal time in each. Even Novices and Soldiers (renamed Initiates) have to attend channeling in either building due to linking lessons. Most marry and have kids. Even those who cannot stay as professional channelers, are encouraged to stay close, meet other channelers, marry another with channeling ability, each baby from the union would get a gift from the Twin Towers.

Eventually the Seachan give up the adam. Tuon bonds Mat. Seachan help fill unoccupied land in the Westlands.

Altara regains control of their kingdom with closest ties to Seachan. Altara becomes the first national democracy. But the first true democracies are the City-States of Almoth, with no need for “national” defense they never form a nation. Two Rivers become a democratic state within the Andoran country. 

 

Did I miss anything?

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The fall of Tar Valon/stilling/destruction of Aes Sedai in Book 4...

 

The white p tower rather is pivotal to the series, Tar Valon is of central importance but it's complete twist at this point is very imbalanced and does not do the series justice at all.

 

I more or less realized that I stopped having interest in the series susb substantially after this point...

 

I hate to say it but I honestly also think this is just authorial intrigue and randomness... I don't know Mr. Jordan personally but like most men of his era he probably was bound to have misogynistic impulses and all that....

 

The series easily could have continued from that point with that entire sequence adn the White Tower playing a bigger role going forward... instead it becomes sorta an afterthought for most of the series while everything else takes center stage.

 

I realize not all female characters get this takedown but when it's contrary to the characters and all that it's pretty brutal.

 

Also in classic fashion it ruins continuity because parts after that book are still very interesting and in the vein of WOT in general.

Edited by Apple151

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The direction of the series should have shifted with Book 4, it's pretty clear that Rand is ultra significant in Aiel culture hence all the terminology and stuff surrounding him whereas where i he is actually from Two Rivers is incredibly messed up and constnatly being fought over by forces far more nefarious and extreme than he is and his small band of people.

 

The book basically all works from 1-4 but then at that point, and it's clear that's partly why Two Rivers is there to wrap up at the end of Book 4 is because they are extracting from a super dangerous situation.. it's all T boned at that point and the logical method should have been to spend all of Book 5-10 or so in Aiel lands sort of partially in exile from Two Rivers, with only Tar Valon and a few forces keeping the balance.

 

Books 5-10 as they are written should be convereted to RJ notes and should of been a code coda to this alternate route.

 

 

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I think Asmodean died too soon.  He had a very unique story; he had a chance for redemption. Lanfear implied that he may have begun to turn (she looked at some of his dreams) but we could never be sure given that they were just dreams. Dreams can be random and not always reflect what we want in the waking world. I would like to think he was turning back toward the light...but I wouldn't have minded an 11th hour backstab.

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On 2/13/2019 at 9:30 PM, MauricXe said:

I think Asmodean died too soon.  He had a very unique story; he had a chance for redemption. Lanfear implied that he may have begun to turn (she looked at some of his dreams) but we could never be sure given that they were just dreams. Dreams can be random and not always reflect what we want in the waking world. I would like to think he was turning back toward the light...but I wouldn't have minded an 11th hour backstab.

 

 

Agreed. I felt this way on my first read, and even more strongly on my first reread when I got there a few weeks ago

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I never liked Asmodean. He never converted to the light. 

At the end of the second to last book, (Spoilers) when Rand has a dream with Meirin, I believed her. 

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Just finishing up on my reread of AMOL.

 

1. Andhrol.  Yes, he and Pevara were lovely together and I enjoyed their dynamic, however, I felt that he took time away from the other characters I had shared 13 books with.

 

2. Siuan and Moiraine. I wanted a reunion, that was a real sticking point for me.

 

3. Moghedien. Really did not need to see her dragged off in a collar, I would have preferred to have finished with her skulking about quietly 'somewhere'.  It felt a little bit too much like a clear victory for the Light, I would have liked something to be unresolved.

 

 

 

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On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 8:52 PM, Apple151 said:

The fall of Tar Valon/stilling/destruction of Aes Sedai in Book 4...

 

The white p tower rather is pivotal to the series, Tar Valon is of central importance but it's complete twist at this point is very imbalanced and does not do the series justice at all.

 

I more or less realized that I stopped having interest in the series susb substantially after this point...

 

I hate to say it but I honestly also think this is just authorial intrigue and randomness... I don't know Mr. Jordan personally but like most men of his era he probably was bound to have misogynistic impulses and all that....

 

The series easily could have continued from that point with that entire sequence adn the White Tower playing a bigger role going forward... instead it becomes sorta an afterthought for most of the series while everything else takes center stage.

 

I realize not all female characters get this takedown but when it's contrary to the characters and all that it's pretty brutal.

 

Also in classic fashion it ruins continuity because parts after that book are still very interesting and in the vein of WOT in general.

 

The fall of the tower was one of the best parts IMO.  As we saw more and more of what the Black Ajah was up to, it was clear just how much of it was their handiwork.  At that point, I hadn't read New Spring and did not realise why Siuan and Moiraine had chosen to be so secretive and was blaming them for keeping the secrets to themselves. For me, as I read it all I could think was 'we are screwed'.  It was not until tea with Verin, that I realised just how infested the tower was.  Fantastic arc and kept me hooked.

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