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Dagon Thyne

Is Rand the Creator?

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There have been several things throughout the series which have always been credited to Rand being Ta'veren, but this doesn't make sense.  A Ta'veren can only effect odds.  They make something that is possible, far more likely to happen.  However, they can't make something that is physically impossible happen.

 

So, it doesn't make sense for Rand's being a Ta'veren be responsible for the dead, barren apple tree in the prologue of TGS come back to life, with a full harvest of apples.  And of course, he literally altered reality when he fully recreated the Dark One's prison.  Does this mean that Rand is the literal avatar of the Creator?    

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By then as Rand explained the DO could touch the pattern enough so the bad things Rand use to make happen by being Ta'veren now was being done by the DO.  A lot of Rands ta'vereness could be said making the impossible happen.  Book three a whole village getting married, people who would of had lethal falls but had no scratch (I remember someone falling into a pit of vipers yet not one bite struck).  So he was making the impossible occur.  Once the DO could touch the pattern enough balance meant Rand could only cause good things now. 

 

He didn't alter reality, he used the powers.  Had he thought the prison whole and then it became whole that would be messing with reality.  Rand simply restored it to how it orginally was by using the male, female, the TP.  Which didn't alter reality.  I wouls say his thinking his pipe lit was more of altering reality.

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He wasn't making the impossible happen.   It's possible to fall several stories without being hurt, just not likely.  The fact that something isn't likely to happen doesn't make it impossible.  But a dead apple tree magically coming back to life full of fresh apples?  That is physically impossible, and was caused by Rand.

 

So Rand was literally causes dead things to come back to life, and makes apples magically appear on a tree that had been complete barren moments before. That seems like altering reality to me.  

Edited by Dagon Thyne

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6 minutes ago, Dagon Thyne said:

He wasn't making the impossible happen.   It's possible to fall several stories without being hurt, just not likely.  The fact that something isn't likely to happen doesn't make it impossible.  But a dead apple tree magically coming back to life full of fresh apples?  That is physically impossible, and was caused by Rand.

 

So Rand was literally causes dead things to come back to life, and makes apples magically appear on a tree that had been complete barren moments before.  That seems like altering reality to me.  

 

Edited by Dagon Thyne

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Yes, he can bring the apple trees back into bloom, because the dead apple trees were the Dark One's work. Rand at that point on can do that because it is Rand's taveren nature being used to fight back against the Dark One. The Pattern needs that balance, and as the touch from the Dark One grew, so does Rand's direct localised influence on the land. All he is doing then is restoring what the Dark One is tearing apart.

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Again, a tar'varen can't make the impossible happen.  It can only effect existing odds of something that is possible.  With Rand, it's far more than just being a tar'varen.  

Edited by Dagon Thyne

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It isn't necessarily Rand being Tar'varen that is directly responsible for bringing the apple trees back to bloom and more the effect of Rand displacing (temporarily) the Dark One's effect upon the Pattern at whichever location he happens to be. This allows the Pattern, and therefore the area affected, to return to it's natural state (i.e. the state the Pattern would be in without the Dark One's taint affecting it).

 

 

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The thing that would count against Rand being the Creator for me (other than the fact I personally don't feel it would be narratively satisfying) is that the Creator speaks to him a couple of times.

 

Oh, I guess you could go down the God/Jesus thing where they're the same but not the same, so to speak, but I think it's better that Rand is simply the Creator's Champion rather than the Creator Incarnate.

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3 minutes ago, doihavepotential said:

I thought the apples was because he knew how to sing to plants(treesinging) and did it in the seanchan garden in AMOL

 

Did he?! I thought only Ogier could treesing? 

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Rand or I guess LTT memories knew the "song".  Remember Mat hearing Rand humming, Rand making the trees appear by the camp.  What he did was a lot more powerful then anything the ogier could do.

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Rand is absolutely 100% the  creator etc... it's likely none of the v events major or minor would have occurred without the Two Rivers scenario... it's pivotal to everything that comes after from the POV of the books.

 

There's a chance you could argue that the world is self-sustaining without him... but it wouldn't have existed without

him either so the point is moot.

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Rand not the creator.

Think of the creator as the architect and Rand as Neo.

Rand’s final pattern reweaving ability shown in dialog with the Dark One in last book. Prior to that dialog, he didn’t create anything new, the pattern was twisted one way by DO and it was being held down by the DO, Rand released the DO force on the pattern.

How can DO twist the pattern? Imagine DO actively holding open a 3D portal to a World of If. Even DO can’t change the pattern.

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On 12/18/2018 at 1:04 AM, Dagon Thyne said:

There have been several things throughout the series which have always been credited to Rand being Ta'veren, but this doesn't make sense.  A Ta'veren can only effect odds.  They make something that is possible, far more likely to happen.  However, they can't make something that is physically impossible happen.

 

So, it doesn't make sense for Rand's being a Ta'veren be responsible for the dead, barren apple tree in the prologue of TGS come back to life, with a full harvest of apples.  And of course, he literally altered reality when he fully recreated the Dark One's prison.  Does this mean that Rand is the literal avatar of the Creator?    

 

Rand is indeed what all the series revolves around.... he essentially creates the entire mythos/universe/characters

 

etc allthough it is likely based on pre-existing conditions of a kind that weren't of his doing

 

Literlaly the actual manipulation of those and all of the ideas present and the actual characters seen in that form

and persona/direction is entirely Rand though.

 

 

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