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Who should/will the Dems run in 2020?

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On 4/2/2019 at 12:47 AM, Nolder said:

I guess Joe is a no go eh?

Looks like a stress test gone bad to me.

 

I thought he announced today?

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12 minutes ago, Tyzack said:

 

I thought he announced today?

Delayed afaik. No official announcement that I know of.

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20 hours ago, Nolder said:

Delayed afaik. No official announcement that I know of.

 

Heard on a pod a few weeks ago:

1. Joe needs to announce before the summer - ideally in April (almost over), possibly May.

2. Once Joe announces, no one else will enter and the real debates can begin.

 

...He's kind of hamstringing the entire process by delaying his entry.

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Biden is getting mixed reviews here (not that it matters). Summary seems to be that his policies are unknown or uninspiring and his campaign so far is focused on attacking trump (which seems dumb, everyone knows his character already, the Mueller report appears to highlight things that are already known and therefore won't inspire people to change), but he represents the "centre" ground and if democrats run a left candidate than they risk splitting the vote with a central independent and losing

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Biden is this year's Jeb! If he isn't out before Super Tuesday he's only hurting himself, the party, and the candidate to be.

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I am not into all the Democratic candidates at present, but to me Biden (though a little old perhaps) seems a good and sensible choice. He has intellect, much experience, values, right temperament and stands for moderation. Compared to the current President he is light years better imo (but then again, I thought you Americans had a moment of 'temporary insanity' when you elected the totally unsuitable - and more than possibly criminal - Trump to Office..). Whoever you end up choosing as the Democratic candidate for 2020, I hope the American people come to their senses and elect a worthy President this time.

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53 minutes ago, Elessar said:

I am not into all the Democratic candidates at present, but to me Biden (though a little old perhaps) seems a good and sensible choice.

I hope you don't mind but I'd like to critique your choice, starting with age. Our current president, Donald Trump, is the oldest person ever to be elected President at age 70. If he wins a second term he will be 77 when he leaves the office. Joe Biden will be 77 years old this year. If age is at all a concern we are definitely walking a fine line.

 

53 minutes ago, Elessar said:

 

He has intellect, much experience, values, right temperament and stands for moderation.

Frankly last time around the electorate wanted an outsider not someone with experience. I don't think that's changed. As for values, temperament, etc. We'll see how well that holds when thrown into contrast with Obama's record, which he will surely be made accountable for by every player in the game.

 

53 minutes ago, Elessar said:

 

Compared to the current President he is light years better imo (but then again, I thought you Americans had a moment of 'temporary insanity' when you elected the totally unsuitable - and more than possibly criminal - Trump to Office..).

I'm disappointed Trump hasn't done more with immigration but other than that he hasn't been too bad (some ME excursions aside). Not sure as someone from Norway you want from a U.S. President.

 

53 minutes ago, Elessar said:

 

Whoever you end up choosing as the Democratic candidate for 2020, I hope the American people come to their senses and elect a worthy President this time.

What makes a man worthy?

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3 hours ago, Nolder said:

Biden is this year's Jeb! If he isn't out before Super Tuesday he's only hurting himself, the party, and the candidate to be.

Ha! Its true.

 

Personally I dont think age matters, beyond how it effects their policies. Just physical health. Sanders is old but I would wager he is more physically fit and healthy than Trump. He made a big point of pushing his doctors reports during his campaign in 2016.

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7 hours ago, Nolder said:

I hope you don't mind but I'd like to critique your choice, starting with age. Our current president, Donald Trump, is the oldest person ever to be elected President at age 70. If he wins a second term he will be 77 when he leaves the office. Joe Biden will be 77 years old this year. If age is at all a concern we are definitely walking a fine line.

 

There is a reason why I usually stay far away from political forum threads, to avoid ending up in big political debates and (unwillingly) stepping on toes or angering people. Especially debates which concern your current controversial President (who in Europe by most is considered dangerous, delusional, a narcissist, possibly mentally ill, totally unsuitable for the job and in best case scenario a clown who should be protected against himself). I am not going to post much in this thread, but since I began sharing some opinions and have received some feedback from you above, I will provide some more reflections this time. It will be a long post and my last one on this issue.

 

Different people have different opinions. I mentioned Biden's age was a drawback, whether it is vital depends on his mental and physical fitness as I see it. But yes, he is a little old for the job. I understand from what you write that you hold Trump in a higher regard than I do (to put it extremely mildly). I mean no disrespect, but imho if Trump wins a second term after all that has happened with him and all that has come out in the past couple of years, I will definitely believe you Americans have lost your minds (*big grin*).

 

 

7 hours ago, Nolder said:

 

Frankly last time around the electorate wanted an outsider not someone with experience. I don't think that's changed. As for values, temperament, etc. We'll see how well that holds when thrown into contrast with Obama's record, which he will surely be made accountable for by every player in the game.

 

I'm disappointed Trump hasn't done more with immigration but other than that he hasn't been too bad (some ME excursions aside). Not sure as someone from Norway you want from a U.S. President.

 

What makes a man worthy?

 

 

I was giving my opinion on Biden from all I have seen and read over the years. I do believe he would be a good choice (despite the age-factor) and most importantly you would then have a President sound of mind with the most important qualities such a person should have imho, impulse-control, calmness of judgement and stability. All the rest (politics) can be sorted through advisors etc. But you need to have the right man in the right place at the right time.

 

Norway have history, traditions, friendship with the US all the way back to the Norwegian immigrants settling in the US in the 1800s, WW2 and in NATO. We therefore follow US politics and news more than many others and wish for a good relationship between our countries. Politically we do prefer US Presidents who are for world trade, the UN, cooperation between states (Democrats usually) but most important to us is that the US President is a man who is responsible, who one can trust and believe in as a world leader.

 

As it is, I am sad to say, most over here believe the neighbour's cat is a safer, sounder choice for President than your current one, so you can see that your beliefs and values and thoughts on Trump (and those of 1/2 US) will be a universe away from ours here.

 

What makes a man worthy? That is up to every voter to decide and the decision is yours, Americans. I have summed up some of my thoughts above regarding qualities many (me included) look for in a President and thereby what makes a man worthy, but opinions will always differ and the American people must make their choice. I just hope you Americans will keep in mind that they are not just electing their leader when they elect a US President, but the world's leader as well with all the responsibility that entails. So make sure you elect the right person with the right qualities.

 

This is my opinion only, but there goes. I have been following US politics for at least 20 years (I have been impressed by Clinton and Obama, less so by Bush jr but he also had some qualities) and I find it interesting and valuable. The populist (who cares about the truth?) anti-establishment trend which carried Trump to victory is a dangerous one I believe, we also see it elsewhere in the world (also in parts of Europe) and it often gives nations populist extreme, nationalist and often unsuited leaders. I fear this is the way of the future due to loss of belief in our leaders (a mistake I say) and that it will make the world a less secure place for the coming generations. Only time will tell.

 

I had not planned to write so much tbh, but once I started I felt it right to give more details to 'flesh out' my opinion. I will return now to the WoT-Roleplay that I primarily do and spend my time with at DM, will write no more here in this thread as mentioned. I wish you Americans the best of luck in your coming Presidential election and sincerely hope you make the correct choice this time *wink and smile*.

 

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37 minutes ago, Elessar said:

 

There is a reason why I usually stay far away from political forum threads, to avoid ending up in big political debates and (unwillingly) stepping on toes or angering people.

A lot of people not used to debates or intense discussions usually avoid them for exactly that reason but I can tell you you'll never solve that problem if you don't participate. Then again some people just plain don't enjoy it, which is their prerogative of course. As I respond to the points you've raised allow me to also point out language you used which could, as you put it, step on peoples toes so perhaps in the future you could avoid doing it unintentionally.

 

37 minutes ago, Elessar said:

Especially debates which concern your current controversial President (who in Europe by most is considered dangerous, delusional, a narcissist, possibly mentally ill, totally unsuitable for the job and in best case scenario a clown who should be protected against himself).

 

Here is a great example of language to avoid if you don't want to anger your audience unintentionally. Whether your thoughts and feelings on the president are positive or negative it behooves you to stay neutral lest you upset one side or the other. Even calling him controversial is walking a line but describing him as delusional or a clown is sure to upset someone. In fact this seems so obvious to me that I kind of doubt that you are sincere in your assertion that making people mad is not intentional on your part. 

 

 

37 minutes ago, Elessar said:

I am not going to post much in this thread, but since I began sharing some opinions and have received some feedback from you above, I will provide some more reflections this time. It will be a long post and my last one on this issue.

Fair enough. I do hope you will read my response though.

 

37 minutes ago, Elessar said:

Different people have different opinions. I mentioned Biden's age was a drawback, whether it is vital depends on his mental and physical fitness as I see it. But yes, he is a little old for the job.

You did mention it, but more so to downplay it. I repeat what I said before: if age is at all a concern - for any president - then we are walking a very fine line already. I would be in favor of amending the constitution and setting an age limit for Presidential Candidates.

 

37 minutes ago, Elessar said:

I understand from what you write that you hold Trump in a higher regard than I do (to put it extremely mildly). I mean no disrespect, but imho if Trump wins a second term after all that has happened with him and all that has come out in the past couple of years, I will definitely believe you Americans have lost your minds (*big grin*).

I believe the world lost it's collective mind somewhere between 2012 and 2014. Probably the LHC's fault tbh. Anyway this is more language you should avoid. First, lumping all Americans together is unfair. A lot of people are Anti Trump even to the point of being militant so I doubt they appreciate the broad brush you're using here. The big grin thing also comes off as being condescending. Some good advice would be to avoid emotes or self descriptive language of any kind as it's sure to be taken the wrong way by someone regardless of how you meant it. And this one is small but the vagueness of your assertions leave much to be desired and could frustrate some people. After all that's happened...what happened? All that has come out...what came out? This could be taken a number of ways by different people. Remember it's better to be specific because people will question you anyway.

 

37 minutes ago, Elessar said:

I was giving my opinion on Biden from all I have seen and read over the years. I do believe he would be a good choice (despite the age-factor) and most importantly you would then have a President sound of mind

Well that's where age comes into play. 

Even if Biden is of sound mind right now, he's very old so how long can his sound mind last?

Age is a very big factor here. In fact if anyone were to primary Trump I think that should be the concern they rely on most.

 

37 minutes ago, Elessar said:

with the most important qualities such a person should have imho, impulse-control,

I'm so sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but the person you're describing here is not Joe Biden.

Even if you want to assume the best there are hundreds of videos and pictures of him exhibiting BAD impulse control.

 

 

37 minutes ago, Elessar said:

calmness of judgement and stability.

I don't really feel like Trumps decisions have lacked judgment or stability, with maybe a few exceptions.

His rhetoric is radical but his actions have been decidedly mild.

 

37 minutes ago, Elessar said:

All the rest (politics) can be sorted through advisors etc. But you need to have the right man in the right place at the right time.

That wasn't what they (the American left) said about Trump.

Apparently knowledgeable advisers aren't good enough.

 

37 minutes ago, Elessar said:

Norway have history, traditions, friendship with the US all the way back to the Norwegian immigrants settling in the US in the 1800s, WW2 and in NATO. We therefore follow US politics and news more than many others and wish for a good relationship between our countries. Politically we do prefer US Presidents who are for world trade, the UN, cooperation between states (Democrats usually) but most important to us is that the US President is a man who is responsible, who one can trust and believe in as a world leader.

So, in essence, you want a President which is friendly towards and all around good for Norway.

I wonder then if you would have any sort of problem with the phrase "America First".

Americans want what is best for Americans, with thought to our allies and others second to our own wants and needs.

 

37 minutes ago, Elessar said:

As it is, I am sad to say, most over here believe the neighbour's cat is a safer, sounder choice for President than your current one, so you can see that your beliefs and values and thoughts on Trump (and those of 1/2 US) will be a universe away from ours here.

I can't say I've had too many chats with people from Norway specifically but I know Donald Trump has a large following in Europe in general. This is also another example of language to avoid. There are in fact people who like Trump so unless you want to chance upsetting them it's better to just leave your neighbors cat out of the discussion altogether.

 

37 minutes ago, Elessar said:

What makes a man worthy? That is up to every voter to decide and the decision is yours, Americans. I have summed up some of my thoughts above regarding qualities many (me included) look for in a President and thereby what makes a man worthy, but opinions will always differ and the American people must make their choice. I just hope you Americans will keep in mind that they are not just electing their leader when they elect a US President, but the world's leader as well with all the responsibility that entails. So make sure you elect the right person with the right qualities.

Well for myself the only quality I'm looking for as a voter is for someone who will do what I think needs to be done. I'm not looking for a saint or a philosopher.

 

37 minutes ago, Elessar said:

This is my opinion only, but there goes. I have been following US politics for at least 20 years (I have been impressed by Clinton and Obama, less so by Bush jr but he also had some qualities) and I find it interesting and valuable. The populist (who cares about the truth?) anti-establishment trend which carried Trump to victory is a dangerous one I believe, we also see it elsewhere in the world (also in parts of Europe) and it often gives nations populist extreme, nationalist and often unsuited leaders. I fear this is the way of the future due to loss of belief in our leaders (a mistake I say) and that it will make the world a less secure place for the coming generations. Only time will tell.

All I can say in response is that populism and nationalism are on the rise and there is a reason for that.

 

37 minutes ago, Elessar said:

I had not planned to write so much tbh, but once I started I felt it right to give more details to 'flesh out' my opinion. I will return now to the WoT-Roleplay that I primarily do and spend my time with at DM, will write no more here in this thread as mentioned. I wish you Americans the best of luck in your coming Presidential election and sincerely hope you make the correct choice this time *wink and smile*.

 

Enjoy your roleplaying.

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" I fear this is the way of the future due to loss of belief in our leaders (a mistake I say) "

 

People lost belief in their establishment leaders (both in the US and in many parts of Europe) because their leaders stopped caring about their citizens and took on the mantle of caring about outsiders to the detriment of citizens. 

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On 4/25/2019 at 3:42 PM, Lenlo said:

Yeah Biden isn't the best option. Def not who I will be voting for.

 

 He ruined my instragam feed last week. Litterally every ad all day, and all his paid/promoted posts. I almost unfollowed him...

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On 4/27/2019 at 12:19 PM, Nolder said:

They're all too old. There should be an age limit imo.

 

We agree?

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18 hours ago, CUBAREY said:

" I fear this is the way of the future due to loss of belief in our leaders (a mistake I say) "

 

People lost belief in their establishment leaders (both in the US and in many parts of Europe) because their leaders stopped caring about their citizens and took on the mantle of caring about outsiders to the detriment of citizens. 

 

On 4/27/2019 at 7:57 PM, Nolder said:

 

All I can say in response is that populism and nationalism are on the rise and there is a reason for that.

 

 

National populism vs. economic populism.

 

We are clearly in another populist moment, the previous being at the end of the gilded age/age of empires at the beginning of the 20th century.

 

When you strip national populism of it's racial overtunes and economic populism of it's class messaging, you're left with plain populism which is a general feeling that the "world/system/government/economy" is run by "forces" who are "different" from "the average citizen (me)" and are working for "themselves" or for "the others" and not for "me"

 

I'll probably split this out into another populism thread.

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groups-Artboard_1.jpg

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/29/us/politics/democratic-primary-debates-2020.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

 

The bottom four  + gabbarb won't/shouldn't last the summer, the field should be down to 10 by the fall.

 

(This won't happen, but it should. People should be honest with themsleves and stop running sooner rather than latter)

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That doesnt have the labels, so a little confusing, but yeah. Everyone not in the green should probably drop out at this point cause the DNC has already proven how important money is to them.

 

Gotta buy those votes!

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22 hours ago, Tyzack said:

groups-Artboard_1.jpg

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/29/us/politics/democratic-primary-debates-2020.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

 

The bottom four  + gabbarb won't/shouldn't last the summer, the field should be down to 10 by the fall.

 

(This won't happen, but it should. People should be honest with themsleves and stop running sooner rather than latter)

You forget that for many who run for President it's a Ego Trip as they really believe they DESERVE to be Presiodent. Further in a field of midgets it's unlikely that anyone running will quit simply because it's pointed out to them that they are short. It was the same in 2016 in the Republican side as it was in 1988 in the Democratic side. 

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16 hours ago, Lenlo said:

That doesnt have the labels, so a little confusing, but yeah. Everyone not in the green should probably drop out at this point cause the DNC has already proven how important money is to them.

 

Gotta buy those votes!

 

Campaigns are expensive. It's not unreasonable to judge a candidate success by how much money they raise; note that the criteria weigh acctual amount and total number of unqiue donnors equally.

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3 hours ago, Tyzack said:

 

Campaigns are expensive. It's not unreasonable to judge a candidate success by how much money they raise; note that the criteria weigh acctual amount and total number of unqiue donnors equally.

Im aware. I am taking pot shots at the 2016 DNC electoral process

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