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DRAGONMOUNT

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Occasionally we all get thoughts or ideas that we want to express, but we haven't fully fleshed them out into a full idea/argument yet.

 

Sometimes you'll be taking a shower, or sitting/kneeling on/in the porcelain throne when muse whispers in your ear, and an idea just pops into your head.

Examples like:

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"Our stomach thinks all potatoes are mashed."

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"The more dismembered the animal in your freezer is, the more socially acceptable it gets."

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"Sex dolls are alive in Toy Story world."

 

Political Musings would be of a similar vein.

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82 senators represent 150 million Americans, while 158 million Americans are represented by the remaining 18.

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political memes are just unregulated political advertising. 

 

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Re: the last two

 

1) This was always the case albeit with different numbers. The Senators from New York always represented a bigger population than that of Rhode island. Although this type of thinking critically misunderstands the way congress was intended to work. PEOPLE are represented by their reps in the House. Senators are meant to represent the interests of their respective States. Granted things have changed in modern times and the Senate basically just acts/functions like a second House but that was never the intention of the founders, for whatever that's worth to you.

 

2) We had this discussion years ago when the meme thread was made and it was agreed that humor is subjective and that not all memes are or have to be funny. We go by a live and let live policy where we all get to post pretty much whatever we want, including blatant propaganda, but we are all allowed to tear into whatever is posted as well.

 

Edit: I thought that last on e was about our thread but after reading it again I get what you're saying. I guess as long as a meme doesn't originate from a campaign what can the law do? Would we want them to do anything even?

Edited by Nolder

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20 minutes ago, Nolder said:

1) This was always the case albeit with different numbers. The Senators from New York always represented a bigger population than that of Rhode island. Although this type of thinking critically misunderstands the way congress was intended to work. PEOPLE are represented by their reps in the House. Senators are meant to represent the interests of their respective States. Granted things have changed in modern times and the Senate basically just acts/functions like a second House but that was never the intention of the founders, for whatever that's worth to you.

Yea, I was just posting random examples I found on the internet to give an idea of how this thread-idea works. :wink:

 

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2) We had this discussion years ago when the meme thread was made and it was agreed that humor is subjective and that not all memes are or have to be funny. We go by a live and let live policy where we all get to post pretty much whatever we want, including blatant propaganda, but we are all allowed to tear into whatever is posted as well.

Well, the meme thread is meant for funny memes.
But memes' don't actually have to be funny.

image.png.95a4a2489f6d7b11fe425f55cf6a94d1.png

Basically, memes in the information age, are a social engineered virus because they self-perpetuates itself through the ecosystem (internet/human minds)


AFAIK, it started in the 80s & 90s with chain letters/email. 

Now days, a meme can reach billions in a day and Spread that informational virus until it burns out. Once you read something. It is literally in your head.

 

Think about this for a second.

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Morgan Freeman: "By simply reading this I am inserting my thoughts, into your brain. You may even have read this quote in Morgan Freeman's voice."

 

Edited by SinisterDeath

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When a Republican is ranting about Democrats and their use Identity Politics, casually mention South Africa.

The gear shifting is quite intriguing to watch.

 

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1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

Oh yea.. Mid-terms are over....

 

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I honestly don't understand why they thought a caravan would work? Did they think they could just... walk across borders and be accepted?

 

Theres a process. If they apply and get in legally, I have no problem with them. But this whole barging across national borders illegally is... not acceptable.

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2 hours ago, Lenlo said:

I honestly don't understand why they thought a caravan would work? Did they think they could just... walk across borders and be accepted?

 

Theres a process. If they apply and get in legally, I have no problem with them. But this whole barging across national borders illegally is... not acceptable.

AFAIK, they planned to evoke some kind of sanctuary/refugee status, and as per some existing US and International law, doesn't look at how you entered the country to apply for said status.

 

At least, that's the counter-argument to republicans using this as a fear mongering tool for midterm votes.

Consider this.

If Jews in WW2 could have entered the USA illegally, apply for Refugee status, would you have deported them back to Germany?

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"AFAIK, they planned to evoke some kind of sanctuary/refugee status, and as per some existing US and International law, doesn't look at how you entered the country to apply for said status."

 

Problem of course that internaqtional law and US law defines 'Refugee" in a rather restrictive manner and since Mexico already offered them refugee status but they declined whether they have any real legal hope of gaining "legal refugee: status is rather doubtful. Also the the whole concept of a Caravan was to make the trip easier (much easier when you have a large group to depend on then   depending on yourself and your resources when you are talking about a 1,200+ journey and for safety as Honduras, Gualtemala and parts of Mexico are decidedly unsafe for individuals or small groups to travel through.

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"If Jews in WW2 could have entered the USA illegally, apply for Refugee status, would you have deported them back to Germany?"

 

The migrants in the Caravans are not facing extermination in Death Camps if they stay in their own countries. At worst they are facing countries with high crime rates (which itself does not grant refugee status under international or American law) and poverty (which again does not give rise to a viable claim of refugee statuts). 

 

 

" and as per some existing US and International law, doesn't look at how you entered the country to apply for said status."

 

That's highly debatable as the Australian example is a clear indication that attempting to enter a country without proper process can and will void your claim for refugee status.

 

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10 hours ago, CUBAREY said:

"If Jews in WW2 could have entered the USA illegally, apply for Refugee status, would you have deported them back to Germany?"

 

The migrants in the Caravans are not facing extermination in Death Camps if they stay in their own countries. At worst they are facing countries with high crime rates (which itself does not grant refugee status under international or American law) and poverty (which again does not give rise to a viable claim of refugee statuts). 

 

 

" and as per some existing US and International law, doesn't look at how you entered the country to apply for said status."

 

That's highly debatable as the Australian example is a clear indication that attempting to enter a country without proper process can and will void your claim for refugee status.

 

Perhaps. But using the rhetoric that these are effectively an invading army is just plain fear mongering. Whether or not they qualify as refugees is for the courts/system to figure out.

 

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Mexico already offered them refugee status but they declined 

Perhaps Mexico is no better than the countries they are fleeing from? Isn't Mexico pretty guilty of treating people from where they are at, in a horrible, possibly inhumane manner?

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"Perhaps Mexico is no better than the countries they are fleeing from? Isn't Mexico pretty guilty of treating people from where they are at, in a horrible, possibly inhumane manner?"

 

Parts of Mexico yes, but not he entire country. Would these "refugees be okay being "resettleled in Detroit or inncer city Chicago? Do not think so. Fact is that crime even bad crime is not a relevant consideration legally in asylum cases and neither is poverty. 

 

As for the rhetoric, when you have thousands of people traveling togehter, suggesting that they will disregard local law and some have proven to be violent and armed then using the rhetoric of an invading army is not far off from the truth.

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22 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

AFAIK, they planned to evoke some kind of sanctuary/refugee status, and as per some existing US and International law, doesn't look at how you entered the country to apply for said status.

 

At least, that's the counter-argument to republicans using this as a fear mongering tool for midterm votes.

Consider this.

If Jews in WW2 could have entered the USA illegally, apply for Refugee status, would you have deported them back to Germany?

As Cuba said, there is no genocide against these people. If they were getting killed based on their ethnic/religious status in that country, then you would have an argument. I would probably let them as legitimate refugees.

 

But these people arn't that. They packed up and decided one day to march to another country. They arn't being persecuted. They are just poor. Theres a difference.

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On 11/20/2018 at 6:14 PM, Lenlo said:

I honestly don't understand why they thought a caravan would work? Did they think they could just... walk across borders and be accepted?

 

Theres a process. If they apply and get in legally, I have no problem with them. But this whole barging across national borders illegally is... not acceptable.

 

With the Trump administration making it extremely hard to get in via official ports of entry, what do you expect them to do?  These are real people whose lives are on the line.  Also, entering the country outside of a designated port of entry in order to seek asylum, while illegal, is only a misdemeanor.  And yet these people are being painted as an invading army of dangerous criminals.

 

On 11/20/2018 at 8:24 PM, SinisterDeath said:

AFAIK, they planned to evoke some kind of sanctuary/refugee status, and as per some existing US and International law, doesn't look at how you entered the country to apply for said status.

 

At least, that's the counter-argument to republicans using this as a fear mongering tool for midterm votes.

Consider this.

If Jews in WW2 could have entered the USA illegally, apply for Refugee status, would you have deported them back to Germany?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_St._Louis

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On 11/20/2018 at 9:50 PM, CUBAREY said:

"AFAIK, they planned to evoke some kind of sanctuary/refugee status, and as per some existing US and International law, doesn't look at how you entered the country to apply for said status."

 

Problem of course that internaqtional law and US law defines 'Refugee" in a rather restrictive manner and since Mexico already offered them refugee status but they declined whether they have any real legal hope of gaining "legal refugee: status is rather doubtful. Also the the whole concept of a Caravan was to make the trip easier (much easier when you have a large group to depend on then   depending on yourself and your resources when you are talking about a 1,200+ journey and for safety as Honduras, Gualtemala and parts of Mexico are decidedly unsafe for individuals or small groups to travel through.

 

Legality considerations aside, offering someone fleeing drug cartels asylum in Mexico is sort of like offering beef cattle asylum on a feedlot.

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7 minutes ago, WWWwombat said:

 

With the Trump administration making it extremely hard to get in via official ports of entry, what do you expect them to do?  These are real people whose lives are on the line.  Also, entering the country outside of a designated port of entry in order to seek asylum, while illegal, is only a misdemeanor.  And yet these people are being painted as an invading army of dangerous criminals.

Are they invading army? No. Do I want them here? Also no.

 

While I understand why they are doing what they are doing, that does not mean I have to sit back and allow it. 

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8 minutes ago, Lenlo said:

Are they invading army? No. Do I want them here? Also no.

 

While I understand why they are doing what they are doing, that does not mean I have to sit back and allow it. 

 

Well no one has to do anything, but in order to not break the law, you have to allow people to seek asylum.  And anyone who gains asylum status has a legal right to stay.

 

There is a lot of legitimate discussion to be had about immigration policy, but it's a thorny, wonky issue and decidedly not sexy so it's being drowned out by inflammatory rhetoric.

 

Also, let's not forget what happened earlier.  Separating children from parents, causing serious psychological trauma, simply because the parents committed a misdemeanor is decidedly imhumane and beneath the dignity of the United States.

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36 minutes ago, WWWwombat said:

 

Well no one has to do anything, but in order to not break the law, you have to allow people to seek asylum.  And anyone who gains asylum status has a legal right to stay.

 

There is a lot of legitimate discussion to be had about immigration policy, but it's a thorny, wonky issue and decidedly not sexy so it's being drowned out by inflammatory rhetoric.

 

Also, let's not forget what happened earlier.  Separating children from parents, causing serious psychological trauma, simply because the parents committed a misdemeanor is decidedly imhumane and beneath the dignity of the United States.

Like I said, if they get in here legally, awesome. They can apply for Asylum. What they cannot do is forcibly cross a border like they did the entire way up here. You want in? Wait in line. I have no issue with you if you do that and get in legally.

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1 hour ago, Lenlo said:

You want in? Wait in line. I have no issue with you if you do that and get in legally.

See.. There's a thing about that line.

There would be less of a line... less of an issue, but some people have it stuck so far up their craw that they really only want asylum seekers that look american. You can say that's just liberal identity politics. But it's true.  You just have to look at some of the people Trump & his cabinet endorse to see that the Republicans are the ones who are routinely playing into racial/identity politics.

 

The Right love to say that liberals/democrats are always playing the identity politics game. But both love playing that game. The Right love exclaiming "we love minorities!". And "The dirty left always make this about race to get black votes!"
 

Want to know how you don't play the identity politics game?

Don't play the mother****ing game in the first place. 

 

Why refer to minorities as minorities?

Why not just call them Americans?

Why say 'the blacks',  when you could just say "Americans". 

 

Truth of the matter is, both sides get something when they keep yelling back-and-forth over racial/identity politics. The left yell, and the Right yell over the left for talking about it. The left yell over the right for not talking about it... Outrage culture at it's finest.... And as I've said many times before. It's not just the left getting outraged over everything.

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A new Musing for a new Day, since apparently no one got the idea behind this thread, and instead jumped on an example musing instead of posting their own.

 

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If Liberals are always trying to take the Christ out of Christmas, how aren't wealthy Republican business owners that exploit shoppers into becoming narcissistic consumers willing to trample people to death for a toy, not doing even more harm to Christ?

 

Edited by SinisterDeath

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"With the Trump administration making it extremely hard to get in via official ports of entry, what do you expect them to do? "

 

Since almost none can actually qualify under refugee status they are like all would be immigrants and have a legal path at their disposal; apply at the local American consulate or embassy in their country and wait to here whether their application has been approved.

 

5 hours ago, WWWwombat said:

 

Legality considerations aside, offering someone fleeing drug cartels asylum in Mexico is sort of like offering beef cattle asylum on a feedlot.

There are many parts of Mexico which are free of the violence associated with the drug cartel (the vast majority of the country as it happens). Also so what would you think if we let in these people but required them to live in parts of Chicaco, Detroit and other urban areas where the violence associated with the drug trade is quite comparable to that in the effected parts of Mexico?

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3 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

See.. There's a thing about that line.

There would be less of a line... less of an issue, but some people have it stuck so far up their craw that they really only want asylum seekers that look american. You can say that's just liberal identity politics. But it's true.  You just have to look at some of the people Trump & his cabinet endorse to see that the Republicans are the ones who are routinely playing into racial/identity politics.

 

The Right love to say that liberals/democrats are always playing the identity politics game. But both love playing that game. The Right love exclaiming "we love minorities!". And "The dirty left always make this about race to get black votes!"
 

Want to know how you don't play the identity politics game?

Don't play the mother****ing game in the first place. 

 

Why refer to minorities as minorities?

Why not just call them Americans?

Why say 'the blacks',  when you could just say "Americans". 

 

Truth of the matter is, both sides get something when they keep yelling back-and-forth over racial/identity politics. The left yell, and the Right yell over the left for talking about it. The left yell over the right for not talking about it... Outrage culture at it's finest.... And as I've said many times before. It's not just the left getting outraged over everything.

Considering I think Black History Month should just be American History Month, cause it happened to everyone, and I think the whole Affirmative Action thing should be done away with, I would agree.

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"There would be less of a line... less of an issue, but some people have it stuck so far up their craw that they really only want asylum seekers that look american. "

 

I do not care what they look like. I have nothing agianst South East Asian immigration for one. I also obviously do not out of hand reject immigration from Latin America. However I think that people being allowed in as immigrants should" 1. Share in shared American values, and 2. be a possitive for the country. Immigration should be about how it helps this country not how the immigrants are benefited.

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