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The casting thread

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3 hours ago, solarz said:

People get too hung up on skin tone. What bothers me a lot more is the fact that these people in no way looks like they're from the same small village that had been isolated from the world for 1000 years. It's not just their skin tone, but also their facial features that just screams they're from different parts of the world. The actor for Perrin also does not seem burly enough.

 

Of course, costume and makeup can go a long way toward rectifying the above, so I am perfectly happy to wait and see.

'Geographically Insulated"  not "Isolated'. Meaning War parties don't march through the two rivers, it goes around them. Two Rivers Tabac is known across Randland.


2,200 years prior, Manetheren fell.  https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Two_Rivers

The whole area was basically wiped out, we can only assume survivors fled.

 

Over the course of the next 1000 years known as the 'free years', people filtered back into the two rivers, started farming, and developed the world famous Two Rivers Tabac. Many of these people, were direct decedents of Manetheren, many were not.

A thousand more years, we have people coming and going. Some setting up Inns, and Businesses. Merchants settling down. People going off to wars and coming back with Brides. Tam cannot literally be the only person to have left the Two Rivers and come back with a bride in the last 2000 years. That's just asinine.

It's literally only been one generation since the Aiel War. A War that caused the rest of the nations to band together to stop the Aiel. A War, that Cairhen and Andor are probably still recovering from, even if they don't look like it. That kind of peace, and relative stability of Andor for the last 500ish years, is what's really caused the Two rivers to become isolated. Tax collectors haven't been there in a generation. But they did go there.

Merchants come and go, but really, only those who know where to acquire the Two Rivers Tabac go there. Their economy goes beyond just there little part of the world, so why should we believe everyone in the Two Rivers are going to be inbred hillbillies that all look alike?

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Posted (edited)

Eh I think it’s more the fact that it’s stated many times that Two River people clearly have a look to them. Elaida wouldn’t have made those comments about Rand if Two River people didn’t tend to all look pretty similar. There could be exemptions of course, Rand is one after all, just like his mother. But I would wager those are quite a small minority.

 

Taren Ferry is all specifically mentioned as having intermingled with “outsiders” which would seemingly mean that the rest of the Two Rivers usually didn’t.

Edited by MasterAblar

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When RJ wrote EotW, which along with the white actor list, is being used to justify racism, it was still meant to a trilogy and not everything in there should be taken as canon. Like several of Min viewings in there do not happen, we never see Egwene sisters and I'd think the Amirlyn's sisters would mentioned and named if only in passing and there are other details. So everyone who does it just stop trying to justify the difference between light black and dark white based on vague descriptions which may or may not be accurate.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Eh I think it’s more the fact that it’s stated many times that Two River people clearly have a look to them. Elaida wouldn’t have made those comments about Rand if Two River people didn’t tend to all look pretty similar. There could be exemptions of course, Rand is one after all, just like his mother. But I would wager those are quite a small minority.

Question.

If the two Rivers is 100% Isolated with Tam being the one outlier in the last 2000 years, How would Elaida even know what a Two Rivers person looks like?
AFAIK she's never stepped foot within the Two Rivers or Emonds Field. Moraine is probably the last Aes Sedia to go there since the Queen of Manetheren died!

 

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Taren Ferry is all specifically mentioned as having intermingled with “outsiders” which would seemingly mean that the rest of the Two Rivers usually didn’t.

And there's the genetic distribution within the Two Rivers region, that prevents everyone looking like Cletus.

Image result for cletus

Edited by SinisterDeath

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2 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

'Geographically Insulated"  not "Isolated'. Meaning War parties don't march through the two rivers, it goes around them. Two Rivers Tabac is known across Randland.


2,200 years prior, Manetheren fell.  https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Two_Rivers

The whole area was basically wiped out, we can only assume survivors fled.

 

Over the course of the next 1000 years known as the 'free years', people filtered back into the two rivers, started farming, and developed the world famous Two Rivers Tabac. Many of these people, were direct decedents of Manetheren, many were not.

A thousand more years, we have people coming and going. Some setting up Inns, and Businesses. Merchants settling down. People going off to wars and coming back with Brides. Tam cannot literally be the only person to have left the Two Rivers and come back with a bride in the last 2000 years. That's just asinine.

It's literally only been one generation since the Aiel War. A War that caused the rest of the nations to band together to stop the Aiel. A War, that Cairhen and Andor are probably still recovering from, even if they don't look like it. That kind of peace, and relative stability of Andor for the last 500ish years, is what's really caused the Two rivers to become isolated. Tax collectors haven't been there in a generation. But they did go there.

Merchants come and go, but really, only those who know where to acquire the Two Rivers Tabac go there. Their economy goes beyond just there little part of the world, so why should we believe everyone in the Two Rivers are going to be inbred hillbillies that all look alike?

 

First of all, it has been mentioned many times in the books that Two Rivers folk had a common look about them.

 

Second, Tam was clearly an outlier. Obviously not the only one in the last 2000 years, but an outlier nonetheless. In tEotW, Rand repeatedly says nobody leaves the Two Rivers. Merchants come every year, but very rarely do they stay, certainly not enough to make the Two Rivers a multi-ethnic place.

 

Two Rivers folk are the direct descendants of Manetheren. That has been established since book 1. The people of Manetheren came back after the Trolloc army was dispersed by Eldrene's sacrifice. Emond's Field is the place where Aemon fell in battle.

 

Therefore, by all logic, Emond's Fielders should look alike.

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They should mostly look alike but Mat doesn't, give it a rest or lodge a complaint with Amazon and don't watch. 

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17 minutes ago, DemandredFO said:

They should mostly look alike but Mat doesn't, give it a rest or lodge a complaint with Amazon and don't watch. 

 

 

I think it'd be better if Mat looked a little more like the other 3 but as long as Rand is the only redhead, and the rest of the Aiel are redheads, it doesn't matter a whole lot.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

The Aiel live in the Desert, Rand did not. The Aiel are by nature pale, but nature put them in the desert so their skin naturally is tanner. Go back and read some character descriptions, Rand stands out both in hair/eyes, but also complexion. Not greatly (due to tanning), but enough.

 

Sauce: Wot.Fandom.Wiki

 

 

Yep. Basically the Aiel are the most pale people in the world when they aren't constantly in the sun, and Rand thinks to himself Aviendha is really pale where the sun doesn't hit her. A paragraph from the book saying that Emond's Fielders are darker than Rand where the sun doesn't touch doesn't show that the Emond's Fielders aren't White, given EVERYONE has darker skin than non tan Aiel. That's like saying anything warmer than an ice cube is on fire. On the flip side, there is no definitive statement showing they are all Caucasian/White, either. So the TV show can really do whatever they want depending on their interpretation, or they can just pick the best actors regardless. My only thing is Rand needs to look different from any of the people in that area, so hopefully none of them have red hair and they dye his hair red.

Edited by Deadsy

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7 hours ago, solarz said:

People get too hung up on skin tone. What bothers me a lot more is the fact that these people in no way looks like they're from the same small village that had been isolated from the world for 1000 years. It's not just their skin tone, but also their facial features that just screams they're from different parts of the world. The actor for Perrin also does not seem burly enough.

 

Of course, costume and makeup can go a long way toward rectifying the above, so I am perfectly happy to wait and see.

 

I don't know, I can buy it. In Brazil (where I live) there are small villages that haven't received a new wave of immigration since the 1600s. Most of the people in these villages look like a mix of the 3 main Brazilian races (Portuguese, Africans and Native Brazilians), but sometimes you see people who look more like one than the others. So you see full Black, full Native and full Portuguese looking people in small villages in the middle of the Northeastern region, sometimes in the same family! My wife and one of her sisters look like full blooded Native Brazilians even though the last Native in the genealogy tree was like, 200 years ago, and even though she's only 20% Native according to a genetic test we did for fun (23andme).

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1 minute ago, solarz said:

First of all, it has been mentioned many times in the books that Two Rivers folk had a common look about them.

Common Look, doesn't mean everyone looks related.

 

Quote

Second, Tam was clearly an outlier. Obviously not the only one in the last 2000 years, but an outlier nonetheless.

Outlier doesn't mean it never happens. The Two Rivers is synonymous with every rural small town in America where 'no one leaves', yet everyone knows someone who left.

 

Quote

In tEotW, Rand repeatedly says nobody leaves the Two Rivers.

At this point, Rand is what, 17, 18?
Rand is stating things from his experiences, what he's been told... Yet he was surprised to learn that his dad left when he was a kid. 
(Looked it up in the Companion. Two rivers hasn't seen a Tax Collector in 6 generations, 150 years, and the Guard in 7 generations.)
 

Here's the thing about Rand..... He's actually not that smart... or at least, simply not well educated.. He's quite frankly ignorant about the world in general. 

Remember that scene in one of the books where Rand mocked and laughed at a merchant, when that guy told him Silk comes from worms. Rand is what I'd call an unreliable narrator.

 

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Merchants come every year, but very rarely do they stay, certainly not enough to make the Two Rivers a multi-ethnic place.

You're still thinking about Randland in real world earth terms.

The two rivers has one culture, and that's two-rivers culture.
If there's any theme RJ had, it's that Culture =/= ethnicity. He literally mixed and matched.

There really is no guarantee that the original Manetheren's were all one 'ethnicity'.
But if we do assume that RJ assigned a different Ethnicity to every one of the 10 nations, why would he make Manetheren the same as Aridhol or Coremanda?.The places that are now Andor and Cairhien?

I explained in my prior post, that there is no way The Two Rivers have been genetically isolated for over 2000 years, nor did I say only traders are responsible for bringing in new genetics.

We have to remember that prior to the breaking, their world was very different to our own. When those people scattered, that doesn't mean they scattered along ethnic lines.

 

Quote

Two Rivers folk are the direct descendants of Manetheren. That has been established since book 1. The people of Manetheren came back after the Trolloc army was dispersed by Eldrene's sacrifice. Emond's Field is the place where Aemon fell in battle.

Find me one description of what Eldrene looked like, or what her 'ethnicity' was.
What did Aemon look like?
Can you find me a single description of what the people of Manetheren looked like?

 

Quote

Therefore, by all logic, Emond's Fielders should look alike.

That's not logic, that's justification.
 

1) We can claim that everyone in the two rivers is a descendant of Manetheren, but we have statements like "the old blood is strong", implying it's been muddled. Prey tell, what has that old blood been muddled by? If everyone is a direct descendant, on both sides, uninterrupted for 2000 years, then everyone would be strong in the old blood. They'd also have a hard time finding someone that isn't their cousin.

2) The people came back.. Eventually, and Over a thousand years...

3) How many people came back? How sure are we that only descedents of Manetheren came back?

4) How many came back with wives from Andor? Husbands from Saldea?

5) How many people left for wars in the early years? How many went to trade their goods in Baerlon? How many didn't come back? How many came back with new wives? 

 

All of this opens the possibility that the Two Rivers isn't full of backwood cletus looking rednecks, and that you're going to have a common skin-tone, with people + or - that common. Rand being the biggest outlier, with his red hair and gray eyes.

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2 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Question.

If the two Rivers is 100% Isolated with Tam being the one outlier in the last 2000 years, How would Elaida even know what a Two Rivers person looks like?
AFAIK she's never stepped foot within the Two Rivers or Emonds Field. Moraine is probably the last Aes Sedia to go there since the Queen of Manetheren died!

 

Agreeing  with you. Morgase says she wouldn't believe Rand was from the Two Rivers, except for his accent. How would the 40-50 year old Morgase know how a Two Rivers accent is except if, you know, met one person from there?

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I have always wondered if that meant Tam and Morgase met during the Aiel War. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, DemandredFO said:

When RJ wrote EotW, which along with the white actor list, is being used to justify racism, it was still meant to a trilogy and not everything in there should be taken as canon. Like several of Min viewings in there do not happen, we never see Egwene sisters and I'd think the Amirlyn's sisters would mentioned and named if only in passing and there are other details. So everyone who does it just stop trying to justify the difference between light black and dark white based on vague descriptions which may or may not be accurate.

Not only that, that list could predate the publication of TEOTW and Jordan could've changed his mind in the meantime.

 

In that list there's a blue eyed actress to play Nynaeve and a blonde actor to play Perrin. Yet Jordan wrote (and published in its final form) that NOBODY in the Two Rivers had light eyes and that Ms Grimwell was the first blonde person Rand encountered in HIS ENTIRE LIFE.

 

Jordan did change stuff on previous books when there were mistakes (like Kari al'Thor's apparition conjured by Ishamael having dark eyes, which could totally be justified with Ishamael not actually knowing what she looked like, or Jain Fairstrider having disappeared in 994NE in the Glossary when the text says it's been about 2 decades) or when he just wanted to change things (like Alsbet/Elsbet). Here's a link with a few examples

 

http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/main/errata.html

 

Yet he never changed those parts that contradict the supposed casting list. So what's wrong, the list (if the list is actually true or was useful to Jordan at all) or the printed words in our official versions of books?

Edited by RDY

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13 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

I have always wondered if that meant Tam and Morgase met during the Aiel War. 

 

I thought about that too. Maybe it'd have been expanded upon on the Tam prequel.

 

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3 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Question.

If the two Rivers is 100% Isolated with Tam being the one outlier in the last 2000 years, How would Elaida even know what a Two Rivers person looks like?
AFAIK she's never stepped foot within the Two Rivers or Emonds Field. Moraine is probably the last Aes Sedia to go there since the Queen of Manetheren died!

 

And there's the genetic distribution within the Two Rivers region, that prevents everyone looking like Cletus.

Image result for cletus

 

Well just because Elaida or Moraine haven’t gone there doesn’t mean there aren’t report and studies concerning the Two Rivers area. Gawyn for exemple knows enough about to know their main export and ressources. Like you said there haven’t been tax collectors or guards in the last 7/8 generations, but that’s not really that much. And if any place would be a repository of knowledge for this kind of stuff it would be the White Tower.

 

Also I don’t think everyone in the Two rivers looks exactly alike, just that there’s a typical look to the area, with a certain degree of variation. 

 

I think it’s also worth mentioning that there’s no direct 1 to 1 comparison with our world that’s possible. You’re talking about a world that went through the age of legends, followed by the breaking, followed by 2 to 4 thousand years of pretty serious insulation. Enough that the people there are similar enough looking to each other for it to be worthy of mention. So these people aren’t so much southern European, or Latino or North African or whatever else, so much  as they are a mix of a bunch of races that has ended with them generally looking like..... well whatever you think it is they do look like.

 

Personally all I need to make up my mind is what’s in the books which is:

 

Darker than pale white Aiel skin tone (as per Elaida in book 1 about Rand) yet lighter than very tanned Aiel (as per Rand’s assessment of Egwene in book 5).

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44 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

I have always wondered if that meant Tam and Morgase met during the Aiel War. 

 

Isn’t there a mention at some point of Morgase visiting the Two Rivers at some point in her youth, or is my memory playing tricks on me?

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50 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Isn’t there a mention at some point of Morgase visiting the Two Rivers at some point in her youth, or is my memory playing tricks on me?

Memories play tricks on us all.

I blame Brandon Sanderon's Ruin. It's the only explanation!

 

Quote

Well just because Elaida or Moraine haven’t gone there doesn’t mean there aren’t report and studies concerning the Two Rivers area. Gawyn for exemple knows enough about to know their main export and ressources. Like you said there haven’t been tax collectors or guards in the last 7/8 generations, but that’s not really that much. And if any place would be a repository of knowledge for this kind of stuff it would be the White Tower.

There could definitely be reports, but paper is different than seeing.


We basically have to possibilities.
Either the Two-Rivers folk physically stand out soo much compared to everyone else in that region, that everyone in that region just intrinsically know that they are from the two rivers. Specially when dressed as farmers.

Or the two rivers has had it's own traders, albeit rare enough that people in the region actually know what they look like but don't see them all that often...

If I had any guess, it's that the two rivers folk used to trade outside the two rivers far more then they do currently, but the instability of the region prior to the Aiel War led them to just stay in their little shelter area... And that any population on Randland isn't going to be as clear-cut as some are making it out to be.

 

Quote

Also I don’t think everyone in the Two rivers looks exactly alike, just that there’s a typical look to the area, with a certain degree of variation. 

Aye. That's kind of what I'm getting at.
That certain degree of variation is present within the group that was casted.

From the casting, we could say that say that Egwene represents the average, with Mat & Perrin representing the variations of each spectrum.

 

And Rand is clearly the red-headed stepchild that was bullied.
 

Quote

I think it’s also worth mentioning that there’s no direct 1 to 1 comparison with our world that’s possible. 

Exactly.

 

Quote

You’re talking about a world that went through the age of legends, followed by the breaking, followed by 2 to 4 thousand years of pretty serious insulation.

So, we have Age of Legends which we're going to assume is NYC.
Then the breaking where each major area breaks up. New Landmasses form.
Then we have about a 2 to 3000 years of Wars with the Shadow, Artur Hawkwing, etc, before we we finally reach the 1000 year lull between then, and the current era. (give or take)

 

Quote

Enough that the people there are similar enough looking to each other for it to be worthy of mention.

By this point, cultures around Randland have been pretty well established, and we have no idea what people looked like a thousand years prior to the start of the books.

But we also have to remember that humans tend to clump together, even within their own little areas.

We clump together by looks, we clump together by social status.
We clump together by proximity.
We clump together with friends instead of enemies.

There are going to be clumps of people who look different then the average person that we'd associate with that area/culture, but their mannerisms, their clothing, are going to tell us where they are from more so then how they physically look.

 

 

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12 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

The Aiel live in the Desert, Rand did not. The Aiel are by nature pale, but nature put them in the desert so their skin naturally is tanner. Go back and read some character descriptions, Rand stands out both in hair/eyes, but also complexion. Not greatly (due to tanning), but enough.

 

Sauce: Wot.Fandom.Wiki

Someone doesn't lose their skin color just because they don't live where their ancestors did?  Do you think the son of a Arabic man is gonna not have darker skin if he grows up in the west?  

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2 hours ago, Deadsy said:

 

 

Yep. Basically the Aiel are the most pale people in the world when they aren't constantly in the sun, and Rand thinks to himself Aviendha is really pale where the sun doesn't hit her. A paragraph from the book saying that Emond's Fielders are darker than Rand where the sun doesn't touch doesn't show that the Emond's Fielders aren't White, given EVERYONE has darker skin than non tan Aiel. That's like saying anything warmer than an ice cube is on fire. On the flip side, there is no definitive statement showing they are all Caucasian/White, either. So the TV show can really do whatever they want depending on their interpretation, or they can just pick the best actors regardless. My only thing is Rand needs to look different from any of the people in that area, so hopefully none of them have red hair and they dye his hair red.

It says their eyes are darker, not their skin.  

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11 minutes ago, Dagon Thyne said:

It says their eyes are darker, not their skin.  

 

Elaida points out Rand's skin color is different from other Two Rivers people when she pulls his sleeve back. (It's obvious she knew what she'd find based on his height and hair color).

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53 minutes ago, Dagon Thyne said:

Someone doesn't lose their skin color just because they don't live where their ancestors did?  Do you think the son of a Arabic man is gonna not have darker skin if he grows up in the west?  

Read the books, the Aiel are not exactly 'dark' under their clothing.

This isn't something only I'm asserting. Pretty much the entire fanbase is behind this interpretation that the Aiel look like Gingers. If they cast the Aiel wrong, it's going to cause more of an uproar, then the two rivers casting. :wink:
 

Also per Robert Jordan. Made the pertinent part easier to read.

Quote

The system of clan and sept is also one that is a parallel of old Scottish and Irish clans and septs. Jordan has said that he thought it would be fun to have the Aiel as a desert culture but with Irish heritage, thus the Aiel are physically as a people modeled After Irish people this is evident through their pale skin, and light hair and eyes. The Aiel are further connected to the Irish through the Tuatha'an.


 

Quote

It says their eyes are darker, not their skin. 

 

41 minutes ago, Deadsy said:

 

Elaida points out Rand's skin color is different from other Two Rivers people when she pulls his sleeve back. (It's obvious she knew what she'd find based on his height and hair color).

^
 

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7 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

 

There really is no guarantee that the original Manetheren's were all one 'ethnicity'.
But if we do assume that RJ assigned a different Ethnicity to every one of the 10 nations, why would he make Manetheren the same as Aridhol or Coremanda?.The places that are now Andor and Cairhien?
 

 

He didn't.

 

There are lots of indications that the Two Rivers folk are based on the Welsh. So they are Wales, just as Andor is England and Cairhein France. 

 

To return to the casting argument Welsh folk are often described as smaller and darker (and the pure Cornish are often described the same), Genetically I think it is had now been shown that originally many came from the Basque region in Spain. There are pockets of older people's throughout northern Europe not all the people's there are Germanic. 

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6 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Isn’t there a mention at some point of Morgase visiting the Two Rivers at some point in her youth, or is my memory playing tricks on me?

No she had heard the accent in her youth, not visited the place (my memory isn't that good just on a reread so read EOTW a few months back)

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9 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Memories play tricks on us all.

I blame Brandon Sanderon's Ruin. It's the only explanation!

 

 

Yep totally Sanderson’s fault

 

9 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

 

 

There could definitely be reports, but paper is different than seeing.


We basically have to possibilities.
Either the Two-Rivers folk physically stand out soo much compared to everyone else in that region, that everyone in that region just intrinsically know that they are from the two rivers. Specially when dressed as farmers.

Or the two rivers has had it's own traders, albeit rare enough that people in the region actually know what they look like but don't see them all that often...

If I had any guess, it's that the two rivers folk used to trade outside the two rivers far more then they do currently, but the instability of the region prior to the Aiel War led them to just stay in their little shelter area... And that any population on Randland isn't going to be as clear-cut as some are making it out to be.

 

 

Well paper is probably enough to figure it Rand isn’t from there 😛.

 

As for the native Two River people, I agree the enormous majority of people wouldn’t be able to mark them down as from there based on looks alone. Although a tendency towards wool clothing and braid would suggest so 😂.

 

But there are definitely people who you could be almost 100% certain are not from there.

 

9 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

 

Aye. That's kind of what I'm getting at.
That certain degree of variation is present within the group that was casted.

From the casting, we could say that say that Egwene represents the average, with Mat & Perrin representing the variations of each spectrum.

 

And Rand is clearly the red-headed stepchild that was bullied.

 

 

I mean yes you could consider it that way, but personally I think that variation is probably too wide. 

 

Mat is definitely too light, and I have a hard time believing someone who is suppose to be pale as snow naturally could tan enough to have significantly darker skin than Egwene’s actress. (Since she is supposed to tan enough to be able to almost pass as one of them). That just doesn’t make much logical sense to me.

 

But it is being a little pedantic since I doubt they would go that far just to get the skin tone perfectly right in a series where skin tone amounts to literally nothing bar one specific exemple.

 

For my part I imagine something between Egwene and Mat’s actors as the baseline for the Two Rivers with them two being the absolute extremes. 

 

What will be interesting is to see how the rest of the people from the Two Rivers are gonna be portrayed. I just hope they stick to more or less what these actors look like and don’t make it look NYC because that will Ben very bizarre considering the Two Rivers history.

 

9 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

 

By this point, cultures around Randland have been pretty well established, and we have no idea what people looked like a thousand years prior to the start of the books.

But we also have to remember that humans tend to clump together, even within their own little areas.

We clump together by looks, we clump together by social status.
We clump together by proximity.
We clump together with friends instead of enemies.

There are going to be clumps of people who look different then the average person that we'd associate with that area/culture, but their mannerisms, their clothing, are going to tell us where they are from more so then how they physically look.

 

 

See yeah I could see them being a little vague as to how populated the Two Rivers is to make it less jarring that there is greater variation in the people living there. Enough that if you squint real hard and don’t focus on the few thousand years of little happening there it won’t bother you. 

 

Although let’s be honest the viewers who haven’t read the book aren’t going to be fazed at all, and hopefully this show brings in a ton of new fans so in that sense it really doesn’t matter. Except to us dummies who love to argue about if Moraines’ eyebrows curve at exaaaaaaactly the right angle, or whether there are enough hairs in Perrin’s beard. 😏

 

And yes people can be told apart culturally by more than just their skin color. The Cairhien hair style, the Illianier speech pattern, the Tairen beard, Arafel and their bells, and so on. 

 

3 hours ago, Jaglover said:

No she had heard the accent in her youth, not visited the place (my memory isn't that good just on a reread so read EOTW a few months back)

 

Ah I see thanks 😉.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Question.

If the two Rivers is 100% Isolated with Tam being the one outlier in the last 2000 years, How would Elaida even know what a Two Rivers person looks like?
AFAIK she's never stepped foot within the Two Rivers or Emonds Field. Moraine is probably the last Aes Sedia to go there since the Queen of Manetheren died!

 

And there's the genetic distribution within the Two Rivers region, that prevents everyone looking like Cletus.

Image result for cletus

Tam wasn't an outlander.  He was born and raised in the Two Rivers, and left seeking adventure.  It was his wife Kari, who was the outlander.  

 

And nowhere in the entire series does it ever say that no one ever leaves the Two Rivers.  

Edited by Dagon Thyne

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