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Tyzack

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36 minutes ago, Nolder said:

I like the world to be diverse and these international cities with people of every sort and a Starbucks on every corner are a blight on this world as far as I'm concerned. Get them out of America, get them out of Europe, get them out of Japan, get them out of the Middle East, just get rid of them.

 

There is so much wrong - or maybe I don’t understand - about this entire post but these two sentences are beyond the pale. What are you talking about? Get who out of where? Are you essentially arguing for a return to some sort of sustenance-based feudalism?

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He is saying he doesnt want the mixing and homogenization of cultures like what the big cities cause.

 

Its ignorant of technological change of the world imo, since you can get to the other side of the planet in under 12 hours now and its unrealistic in that kind of world to want to prevent the mixing of cultures

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51 minutes ago, Tyzack said:

 

There is so much wrong - or maybe I don’t understand - about this entire post but these two sentences are beyond the pale. What are you talking about? Get who out of where? Are you essentially arguing for a return to some sort of sustenance-based feudalism?

I just don't like big cities lol. I didn't think it was that hard to understand.

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38 minutes ago, Nolder said:

I just don't like big cities lol. I didn't think it was that hard to understand.

 

This doesn't surprise me at all. If you're opposed to interacting with people who are different than you (ie, mixing culutures), then cities would be some form of hell.

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25 minutes ago, Tyzack said:

 

This doesn't surprise me at all. If you're opposed to interacting with people who are different than you (ie, mixing culutures), then cities would be some form of hell.

I'm not opposed to interacting with people who are different from me.

 

Let me put this in a way maybe you can understand.

These international cities have become interchangeable.

They are filled with shopping centers and fast food corporations like McDonald's or Starbucks.

The people in these cities are ethnically mixed but in many ways culturally the same.

Their culture is the cosmopolitan city life of the soulless consumer.

 

I hate everything about that.

 

If I visit London I want to experience a British city, if I visit Paris I want to be immersed in French culture, if I take a trip to Rome I want the Italian experience. I WANT diversity and I want these different cultures and experiences to exist for all people. Many of the worlds largest and most renowned cities are turning away from that. They are becoming the same place with a different veneer. 

 

There are other reasons I tend to dislike cities, such as crowding and pollution, which we don't need to get into right now but maybe now you can better understand where I'm coming from.

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1 hour ago, Lenlo said:

Have you actually been to any of those cities? Because as someone who has been to Austin and LA, London and Rome, I can tell you that they all feel very different.

Moving to correct thread

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Your basic philosphy is that people - cultures - are better left alone, because any contact between different societies will lead, inevivitably towards the dilussion of the desprate cultures and the creation of a new, combined experence? 

 

Something along those lines? 

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1 hour ago, Tyzack said:

 

"Have you actually been to any of those cities? Because as someone who has been to Austin and LA, London and Rome, I can tell you that they all feel very different."

 

I agree with the sentiment except I would not classify Austin as an International City (it's an overgrown college town).

 

"Let me put this in a way maybe you can understand.

These international cities have become interchangeable.

They are filled with shopping centers and fast food corporations like McDonald's or Starbucks.

The people in these cities are ethnically mixed but in many ways culturally the same."

 

The Great international cities are all "cosmopolitan" , it's true. However, London is still an English City, Paris a French city Rome Italian and New York an American city. People who have visited such cities can obviously see the similarities (they are all trading cities after all) but London, can not be mistaken for an American city, Paris for anything  but a French city and Rome is eternally Italian.

 

"They are filled with shopping centers and fast food corporations like McDonald's or Starbucks.

The people in these cities are ethnically mixed but in many ways culturally the same."

 

That can be said of any great trading city (and trading was the reason why cities were created) going back to Sumer and Ur. What actually identifies an international city is not the presence of a Starbucks or MacDonald since Pioria and Fall Cities both have those. No what identifies an international city is the diverseness not found in other cities. What make New York, London, Paris, Rome Tokyo and Berlin great is that you can find restaurants from 40 different nations in all of them but the foreign cultures all interact differently with the indiginous inhabitans so that London is still an English city, and Paris a French city and Tokyo a Japanese city regardless of the fact that you can find people and food from 40 different countries in all of them.

 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, CUBAREY said:

"Have you actually been to any of those cities? Because as someone who has been to Austin and LA, London and Rome, I can tell you that they all feel very different."

 

I agree with the sentiment except I would not classify Austin as an International City (it's an overgrown college town).

 

I'm beginning to question Boston as a International City - it's a combination of a few overgrown college towns, some deeply racist urban-suburbs,  class and racial divides so deep no one even thinks or talks about them anymore and ... that's about it.

 

I mean, in terms of different cuisine alone this city is lacking, but that's not the point.

 

I think Nolder's point is that if you buy into Ethno-nationalism, then any threat to single-ethnic experence is a threat to the idea of ethnic greatness, uniqueness, or whatever reason you have for being an ethno-nationalist.

 

But I'm grasping at straws here; saying that we should retreat to sustenance-based ethnic states who have little/no interaction between them is a drastic way to solve the problem of "if you don't know or trust a stranger, then you don't know he isn't trying to [harm] you, therefore you [and he] are justified in [fighting/killing] each other"

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"'m beginning to question Boston as a International City - it's a combination of a few overgrown college towns, some deeply racist urban-suburbs,  class and racial divides so deep no one even thinks or talks about them anymore and ... that's about it."

 

I am not so critical of Boston, but I do not think of it as an International City. It's a regional city with a unique make-up. Much like San Francisco, New Orleans, Dallas, Houston or even Chicago. In my mind their are only two American Cities that can be said to  be "International' New York and to a lesser extent (only because defining it as a city and not a string of suburbs is difficult for me) is L.A. Miami, comes close but it's international outlook is almost exclusively  focused on the Carribean and Latin America and that is still a bit too narrow for my way of thinking.

 

 

"I think Nolder's point is that if you buy into Ethno-nationalism, then any threat to single-ethnic experence is a threat to the idea of ethnic greatness, uniqueness, or whatever reason you have for being an ethno-nationalist.

 

But I'm grasping at straws here; saying that we should retreat to sustenance-based ethnic states who have little/no interaction between them is a drastic way to solve the problem of "if you don't know or trust a stranger, then you don't know he isn't trying to [harm] you, therefore you [and he] are justified in [fighting/killing] each other"

 

I think you are going much too far. 

 

Their are quite good historical reasons for some people to prefer ethno states whether they be the Flemish in Flanders,  Checks and Slovaks and what used to be Checoslovakia , Hundgarians or the various Slavic people that made up Yugoslavia for instance. Please note that known of these favored/favor a closing down of interactions with other people or even object to none ethnic minorites in their countries as long as their national identity is respected. 

 

No I think part of Nolder's problem is that at heart he a a rube or hayseed that objects to anything he is not familiar and comfortable with which is really not true of most ethno state supporters in Europe for instance.

 

 

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Like, if you want an Italian city through and through, go to Tuscany or Florence or Venice. These other great cities that are not international trading cities. Go to Bordeaux or Strasbo for French and Edinburg or Manchester for British.

 

The international trade cities exist for a reason. If you want purely that culture, those cities still exist and are still great.

 

Venice is perhaps my favorite city in the world that I have been to, and it is 200% Italian. I watched Gonola's from 2 rival companies almost get into a river fight while eating pasta from a canal-side restaurant. It was amazing. Plus, no cars

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Have you actually been to any of those cities? Because as someone who has been to Austin and LA, London and Rome, I can tell you that they all feel very different.

I've been to several large cities on the West coast including LA, SD, Sac, Medford, Portland, Seattle, Tacoma, Las Vegas, Laughlin, Flagstaff, and Phoenix as well as an assortment of smaller but well known cities in the area such as Eureka in Northern California.

 

Sure there are still local flavors but in large part, especially in the downtown or shopping areas, they are pretty interchangeable.

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So, your complaining about the internationalization of foreign cities you have never actually been to, while comparing them to cities along the West Coast, a singular region of the US? Because I guarantee you, Rome is very different from LA or Seattle.

Edited by Lenlo

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21 hours ago, Tyzack said:

Your basic philosphy is that people - cultures - are better left alone, because any contact between different societies will lead, inevivitably towards the dilussion of the desprate cultures and the creation of a new, combined experence? 

 

Something along those lines? 

Well I mean, no not exactly.

You keep making this a "oh there's one brown person in London, ITS RUINED!" Thing for me and it's really not. Hence your "any contact" line.

 

There has always been a sharing and adoption of certain aspects of different cultures, even very foreign ones. I think its a good thing but the Left has shamed it using the term "cultural appropriation". 

 

I think that so long as the core culture, and those who created it, are left intact some "diversity" is a fine thing. I love visiting Little Tokyo and Chinatown in LA but I don't want LA or even California to be majority Japanese or Chinese or even Asian. It's an American place and it should stay that way.

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16 hours ago, Lenlo said:

So, your complaining about the internationalization of foreign cities you have never actually been to, while comparing them to cities along the West Coast, a singular region of the US? Because I guarantee you, Rome is very different from LA or Seattle.

Have you ever been black before?

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55 minutes ago, Nolder said:

Have you ever been black before?

No, but then again, I also don't complain about what its like to be black. I leave that to, you know, Black people.

 

Having been to these cities, and having some idea of what they are actually like though, I feel qualified, or atleast more qualified than you, to speak on what they are like.

 

What exactly are you basing this hatred of internationalized cities on when you have never actually... been to a foreign city? From what it sounds like, you have barely even left the US if at all. So uh... what basis, what qualifications, do you have at all to complain about this? You have absolutely no idea what your talking about because you have never actually set foot in any of these cities. How would you even know what an "Italian" or "British" or "French" city is supposed to feel like when you have never even set foot in those countries? 

 

The simple answer is, you can't. So... this entire argument is baseless.

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In many ways you could consider the "down town malls" the "American Quarter" of the city; perhaps not the Gucci/Armani malls, but definetly the more accessable (American Eagle, GAP, etc), malls. The "vibe" they are all going for is some sort of proto-american consumerism. 

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On 9/11/2018 at 1:06 PM, CUBAREY said:

The Great international cities are all "cosmopolitan" , it's true. However, London is still an English City, Paris a French city Rome Italian and New York an American city. People who have visited such cities can obviously see the similarities (they are all trading cities after all) but London, can not be mistaken for an American city, Paris for anything  but a French city and Rome is eternally Italian.

For now. As I said they are trending towards becoming more or less the same with a "cultural veneer".

Rome will still have a Colosseum but will it really be Italian? In 50 years perhaps not.

 

On 9/11/2018 at 1:06 PM, CUBAREY said:

What make New York, London, Paris, Rome Tokyo and Berlin great is that you can find restaurants from 40 different nations in all of them but the foreign cultures all interact differently with the indiginous inhabitans so that London is still an English city, and Paris a French city and Tokyo a Japanese city regardless of the fact that you can find people and food from 40 different countries in all of them.

London is a minority white British city. How long can it stay British without Brits?

 

On 9/11/2018 at 1:31 PM, Tyzack said:

I think Nolder's point is that if you buy into Ethno-nationalism, then any threat to single-ethnic experence is a threat to the idea of ethnic greatness, uniqueness, or whatever reason you have for being an ethno-nationalist.

Wha...

 

Seriously? The "idea" of "ethnic greatness"?

WTF are you even talking about?

Not once have I talked in such abstract terms.

 

And I have never labeled myself an ethno nationalist so I don't know where you and Cuba keep coming up with this.

 

On 9/11/2018 at 1:31 PM, Tyzack said:

But I'm grasping at straws here;

You really are.

 

On 9/11/2018 at 2:09 PM, CUBAREY said:

I think you are going much too far. 

 

Their are quite good historical reasons for some people to prefer ethno states whether they be the Flemish in Flanders,  Checks and Slovaks and what used to be Checoslovakia , Hundgarians or the various Slavic people that made up Yugoslavia for instance. Please note that known of these favored/favor a closing down of interactions with other people or even object to none ethnic minorites in their countries as long as their national identity is respected. 

 

No I think part of Nolder's problem is that at heart he a a rube or hayseed that objects to anything he is not familiar and comfortable with which is really not true of most ethno state supporters in Europe for instance.

This is just typical leftist babel I'd expect from Ty.

Why do I have to object/be afraid of/uncomfortable/etc with anything that's not "familiar"?

It's like the whole homophobia term, I'm not afraid of gays.

It's a baseless claim meant to smear someone and shut them up just like accusations of being "uncomfortable" around other ethnicities.

 

Seriously both of you GTFO with this nonsense. It would be laughable if it wasn't so insulting.

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4 hours ago, Lenlo said:

No, but then again, I also don't complain about what its like to be black. I leave that to, you know, Black people.

 

The simple answer is, you can't. So... this entire argument is baseless.

Ok so let's be clear about this and state it plainly.

You are saying if you haven't experienced something you can't have an opinion on it?

Think carefully before you answer.

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I am saying, you have no information to base your assertions off of. You have no idea what a British city is like, nor have you been to London, so how can you make a judgement call on whether or not it "feels" like a British City?

 

You can't.

 

Thats like going to a dentist and asking them to troubleshoot your computer. Yeah, the dentist will have an opinion on the matter and may even get it right. But you would be much better served going to an IT guy. Because one is an expert, the other is not.

 

To sum up, basically what I am saying is, yes you can have an opinion. But without experiences or knowledge to back it up, it's a baseless and uninformed opinion, and thus has absolutely no weight in any discussion pertaining to that topic. 

 

You have neither personal experience nor knowledge of these cities. I do. So I am confident that I know more about this subject than you, because your opinion is rooted in nothing.

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13 hours ago, Lenlo said:

I am saying, you have no information to base your assertions off of. You have no idea what a British city is like, nor have you been to London, so how can you make a judgement call on whether or not it "feels" like a British City?

 

You can't.

 

Thats like going to a dentist and asking them to troubleshoot your computer. Yeah, the dentist will have an opinion on the matter and may even get it right. But you would be much better served going to an IT guy. Because one is an expert, the other is not.

 

To sum up, basically what I am saying is, yes you can have an opinion. But without experiences or knowledge to back it up, it's a baseless and uninformed opinion, and thus has absolutely no weight in any discussion pertaining to that topic. 

 

You have neither personal experience nor knowledge of these cities. I do. So I am confident that I know more about this subject than you, because your opinion is rooted in nothing.

Nothing?

 

Now you're going to laugh at first but again consider this carefully before you answer.

Is watching Monty Python experiencing British culture?

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It is. But how does watching a Sketch Comedy group equate to knowledge of the City of London?

 

You have not walked its streets. You have not spoken to its residents. You have not lived in it or eaten its food. So all of your information is 2nd-hand, at best.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Lenlo said:

It is. But how does watching a Sketch Comedy group equate to knowledge of the City of London?

It informs me about British culture. Now obviously I can't go over every minute thing that's British that I've experienced in my life nor should I have to. I think we should be able to agree that someone can have an understanding of a culture without having to visit. Would I get a BETTER understanding were I to visit? Perhaps, but I do not think it is necessary. Do you?

 

13 minutes ago, Lenlo said:

You have not walked its streets.

True, although I have had some exploring on Geoguessr.

 

13 minutes ago, Lenlo said:

You have not spoken to its residents.

Wrong.

 

The internet is a wonderful place ain't it?

 

13 minutes ago, Lenlo said:

You have not lived in it or eaten its food.

Debatable. I have not had food prepared in the UK obviously but I have had traditional English dishes once or twice. Some would say that doesn't count and ehhh I can concede that but I can also see the point of view that sushi is sushi no matter where you eat it or who made it. So...ehhh.

 

13 minutes ago, Lenlo said:

So all of your information is 2nd-hand, at best.

I wouldn't say that.

You never read British news before?

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