Tyzack

Tipping is horrible

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TL:DR of this post is that we shouldn't allow food service employers to pay sub-minimum wage.

 

Waitstaff, bar tenders, etc, should be paid the same as everyone else. If this means that the restaraunt industry won't be able to employ as many people, or that prices will go up to cover the labor costs, or that restaruants will go out of business, well, then, I'd say those places have bad (and borderline immoral) business practices.

 

I've been of these opinions for a while, but the NYT rain some stories about it today, and there's this old "Adam ruins" video.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/11/business/tipping-sexual-harassment.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/12/opinion/tipping-restaurants-servers-cuomo-new-york.html

 

 

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Does anyone really disagree with this...? Theres a reason tipping is an insult in a lot of countries like Japan and in higher in restaurants. I was explicitly told not to tip when I ate at a fine French restaurant here in DC, because they price their food with paying their staff appropriately.

 

Tipping happens in lower-mid level restaurants and such because A) employers know they can get away with shafting employees because tips exist and B) those jobs didn't pay that well in the first place. Im not sure which came first honestly, lower wages cause they were getting tipped, or tips because lower wages. 

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Add removal of the sub-minimum wage to the democratic platform, along with the raising of the national minimum wage...and maybe win?

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Didn't read your OP.

Here's how I feel about tipping: you get a good tip for good service, I don't feel obligated to give anything above 10% and that's just a general guide post for me not a hard number.

I've given $100 tip on bills less than $50 before. I've also left like $1 on on a bill more than $50 so it really just depends.

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I agree that we should get rid of tipping. First of, it's pricey enough to eat out; second, the restaurant should DEFINITELY be paying their staff more than minimum, or more than whatever they're getting away with. It seems like the only business where it's okay to pay people less for their work.

I lived in Japan for several years and it was great not to have to tip. And the service there was always excellent (comparatively).

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1 hour ago, Nolder said:

Didn't read your OP.

Here's how I feel about tipping: you get a good tip for good service, I don't feel obligated to give anything above 10% and that's just a general guide post for me not a hard number.

I've given $100 tip on bills less than $50 before. I've also left like $1 on on a bill more than $50 so it really just depends.

The argument is that working as a waiter should make enough money that tips are not required to meet a livable wage. Namely, the waiters should be making minimum wage at the least without tips.

 

This way, like in most Asian/some EU cultures, you dont tip at all. The waiter is paid for their service by their employer.

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12 minutes ago, Lenlo said:

The argument is that working as a waiter should make enough money that tips are not required to meet a livable wage. Namely, the waiters should be making minimum wage at the least without tips.

 

This way, like in most Asian/some EU cultures, you dont tip at all. The waiter is paid for their service by their employer.

I think we could help more by outlawing the sharing of tips.

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1 minute ago, Nolder said:

I think we could help more by outlawing the sharing of tips.

Sharing of tips isn't really that horrible when you have some staff working a servers wage, but are barred from picking up the tips.

 

Requiring all tips to be shared, is a bit of a shitty proposition, specially when you have servers who aren't pulling there fair share.

When getting pissy because people put the tip on their card is just annoying to me.

You bet you're ass I want you to pay income tax on that money like the rest of us!

I damn well know thousands of servers only claim federal minimum wage ($7.25/hr/$15,080 ) and pocket the rest, effectively earning  several thousand, if not 10s of thousands over minimum wage tax free.

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Sharing of tips isn't really that horrible when you have some staff working a servers wage, but are barred from picking up the tips.

 

Requiring all tips to be shared, is a bit of a shitty proposition, specially when you have servers who aren't pulling there fair share.

When getting pissy because people put the tip on their card is just annoying to me.

You bet you're ass I want you to pay income tax on that money like the rest of us!

I damn well know thousands of servers only claim federal minimum wage ($7.25/hr/$15,080 ) and pocket the rest, effectively earning  several thousand, if not 10s of thousands over minimum wage tax free.

It seems to me that the food service industry is very wonky in many ways.

Like you said some can make thousands over min wage while others struggle to make ends meet.

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Could solve the tax issue by just... getting rid of tipping and paying them a set amount. Then they get taxed like everyone else.

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18 minutes ago, Lenlo said:

Could solve the tax issue by just... getting rid of tipping and paying them a set amount. Then they get taxed like everyone else.

Many servers would hate that.

 

Now it'll be harder to qualify for food stamps & earning several thousand more than they really are. :wink:

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50 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Many servers would hate that.

 

Now it'll be harder to qualify for food stamps & earning several thousand more than they really are. :wink:

They will get it over it and realize its not ok to abuse a system. Good thing servers dont run our government, though with how current politicians are, it would be a quicker death if they did.

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I can't hate on the servers though. I mean, they're working with a broken system. Some succeed, others don't.

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2 hours ago, Jagen Sedai said:

I can't hate on the servers though. I mean, they're working with a broken system. Some succeed, others don't.

 

Depends on what state you live in. Some states like New York allow for below minimum wage for food service positions because of tipping. In places like California servers get minimum wage + tips. This allows them to claim what’s on their W2 to put them in a low bracket while pocketing cash nightly.

 

The bar should be set that all employees make at least minimum wage and tips should no longer be a thing. I wouldn’t mind an increase in menu costs knowing the price that I see is what is expected when the bill is paid.

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4 hours ago, Andrej said:

 

Depends on what state you live in. Some states like New York allow for below minimum wage for food service positions because of tipping. In places like California servers get minimum wage + tips. This allows them to claim what’s on their W2 to put them in a low bracket while pocketing cash nightly.

 

The bar should be set that all employees make at least minimum wage and tips should no longer be a thing. I wouldn’t mind an increase in menu costs knowing the price that I see is what is expected when the bill is paid.

I don't know if it's a state law, or just something businesses do, but I've heard that even if they get paid the $4.25/hr server wage, if they don't earn the additional $3.00/hr in tips supposedly the business pays them $7.25/hr. I could be easily wrong on this matter, but I recall some servers talking about this, and why they liked it on Slow Days where they may only see 1 or 2 customers/hr.

 

Course, if you live in a large town/city, chances are they don't pay there servers $7.25/hr. To hard to keep employees when the bar down the street pays $9.50, or iHOP pays $10.

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5 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

I don't know if it's a state law, or just something businesses do, but I've heard that even if they get paid the $4.25/hr server wage, if they don't earn the additional $3.00/hr in tips supposedly the business pays them $7.25/hr. I could be easily wrong on this matter, but I recall some servers talking about this, and why they liked it on Slow Days where they may only see 1 or 2 customers/hr.

 

Course, if you live in a large town/city, chances are they don't pay there servers $7.25/hr. To hard to keep employees when the bar down the street pays $9.50, or iHOP pays $10.

 

That sounds a lot like commission.

 

Here they’re paid $11.50 plus whatever tips they make, which depending on the restaurant/shift/business could be several hundred dollars a night. Even better if they don’t have to claim or share those tips.

 

My opinion on servers is probably less savory because I know they can abuse the system, at least here where I live. I’d rather see increased menu prices to pay them all the same and cut tipping out completely. Let’s make them have to claim their full pay and maybe they’ll complain less.

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"This way, like in most Asian/some EU cultures, you dont tip at all. The waiter is paid for their service by their employer."

 

In most European countries the "tip" is included in the bill (at 15%) and is mandatory. Further additional tips 1 to 5 euros are apreciated and welcomed.

 

 

I have no serious problem with having the general minimum wage be applicable to waiters and waitresses as long as every one is cognicent that prices for food will go up nd that tre tips will be few and far between.

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"I don't know if it's a state law, or just something businesses do, but I've heard that even if they get paid the $4.25/hr server wage, if they don't earn the additional $3.00/hr in tips supposedly the business pays them $7.25/hr. I could be easily wrong on this matter, but I recall some servers talking about this, and why they liked it on Slow Days where they may only see 1 or 2 customers/hr."

 

That's actually the federal law:  

That’s how the federal law works, as well. US companies are allowed to pay tipped employees pittance because customers are expected to tip well enough to surpass at least the federal minimum wage of $7.25, and, if they don’t, companies have to chip in the rest.

But that’s not how things always work in the real world. “The servers who make ‘good money’ are in the minority,” says Maria Myotte, a spokesperson for Restaurant Opportunities Center United, which aims to improve conditions for workers in the industry. She notes that tipped workers are hit especially hard by “wage theft,” whereby restaurants don’t make up the difference when the tips aren’t rolling in. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/05/minimum-wage-tip-map-waiters-waitresses-servers/

 

Statesof course are allowd and due set their own mimimum wage laws and aplly them to Tip Staff as they see fit:

 

tip-map_2.gif

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2 hours ago, CUBAREY said:

"This way, like in most Asian/some EU cultures, you dont tip at all. The waiter is paid for their service by their employer."

 

In most European countries the "tip" is included in the bill (at 15%) and is mandatory. Further additional tips 1 to 5 euros are apreciated and welcomed.

 

 

I have no serious problem with having the general minimum wage be applicable to waiters and waitresses as long as every one is cognicent that prices for food will go up nd that tre tips will be few and far between.

Is it really a "tip" if gratuity/server cost is included in the bill and you are told about it upfront?

Really, if they just up their prices by 15% across the board and get rid of gratuity charges on the bill, its the exact same price without ever mentioning tips.

 

Also, thats why I specified "some"

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In Finland one does not tip. Hard to get accustomed to paying more than the names price. Actually some 7 years ago in florida, in a bar, I tipped as I could to the barman, very friendly, and I said in Finland they'd probably be offended if offered a tip. He seemed flabbergasted, I don't know if understanding, going by memory. Later of course I've read people make allowance for foreigners, and different lands have different customs. In Finland if they get bribed, they don't want a pittance... I didn't then realise I couldn't get the full drinks on the money I had, save what was left over as a tip. He didn't mind, but what was it, understanding Europeans, North Europeans, expecting to make the barman happy with pledges of gratitude.

Edited by Graendals favourite

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In Finland it is simply, oh I have this much money, I look at that board of prices, I can get this and that and that, as long as the sum is less I have of the money, and as a teenager, money left to go home. (Older one plans better, but in Finland the same thing applies.)

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