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Maedelin

Why Moirraine? (Spoilers, be warned!)

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I have to admit to some really serious confusion here.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Moirraine.  I loved her Gandalf-esque way of leaving the party.  I love her calm solemnity, and her caring nature.  I'm actually really upset that she did not get to see Rand at the end of the book; why couldn't her AND Cadsuane have seen Rand canter off at the end?  Between her and the soon-to-be Amrylin, I think Moirraine deserved it more.  She also deserves the Stole and Seat more too, but that's another gripe.

 

But really, why, WHY was she needed in the cave confronting the Dark One?  Nyaneave makes perfect sense; Immensely strong, helped cleanse Saidin, but why Moirraine who is far weaker than she was before?  Nearly anyone else could or should have gone in, particularly someone more powerful to make using the angreal even more potent.

 

I really just don't get it.  I'd love to hear everyone else's opinion on this too!

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Moiraine was stronger than she was before when she used Lanfear´s angreal. I think Rand wanted her with him because he trusted her completely. She had done everything to get him there to fight the DO, even sacrified herself. (And maybe he wanted her with him in the end because she was the one who started the journey with him?)

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I think they owed it to the fans who felt betrayed by the way she was tossed aside and left hanging around in unspoken limbo for so many years.

 

too little too late imo, but she clearly was only mostly dead so the thread needed resolution.

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40 minutes ago, jack of shadows said:

@niniel,

.."because he trusted her completely."

 

did he?

did rand trust moiraine completely?

 

Yes, I think he did in the end. He knows that she has dedicated her whole life to getting him to the last battle to fight the DO. She would do anything to help him win that fight. 

 

3 minutes ago, Mrs. Cindy Gill said:

I think they owed it to the fans who felt betrayed by the way she was tossed aside and left hanging around in unspoken limbo for so many years.

 

too little too late imo, but she clearly was only mostly dead so the thread needed resolution.

 

That too.

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I think his reaction to seeing her alive says it all for what he felt for her.  Why at the end shouldn't he trust her completely?  She knowingly sacrificed herself to take out Lanfear and save Rand.  The sacrifice is what made Rand trust her, because chances are had she stayed by Rand's side he would always be suspicious that she was trying to influence him somehow.  Not to mention Lan and Nyn wouldn't of gotten married if he was still bonded to Moraine.  With Moriane around he also of wouldn't of needed Cas.  So Moriane had to go.

 

But as Niniel said, he needed two women he could trust.  Eg and Elayne were busy with other things.  He didn't trust or like Cas enough.

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Rand trusted Alivia, who was basically ignored in the entire last book except at the end where she "helps Rand die".  The whole thing didn't make sense.  Alivia's great job was to...acquire some clothes, money, and a horse.  If she had gone in with Rand, would that greater power have helped?  Wouldn't that make more sense?

 

I love Moirraine.  I just don't understand the thought process behind who went in with Rand.  Hell, even Aviendha could have.

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I wish Alivia had a bigger role in the end too. I might remember it wrong but I think that she couldn’t, or didn’t like, getting into a circle. That was needed at SG. 

Edited by Niniel

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Moiraine is the one that can be trusted to wait for the moment. The others would have failed, especially when Moridin picked up Callandor. They had a tendancy to throw away plans, and make things worse as a result. Moiraine knew precisely what her place was. Nyneave could be trusted to back it up despite her objections.

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@wotfan4472,

"moiraine is the one that can be trusted to wait for the moment."

this is irrelevant,it wasn't moiraine's decision,it was rand's, "now! rand

yelled.nynaeve and moiraine channeled together exploiting the flaw in

callandor.." ..and seconds later..."link!rand commanded.they fed to him.power."

 

@Niniel,

"i wish alicia had a bigger role..."

creative autocorrect?robert jordan created too many characters as it is,

no need to add one more.*grinning*

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On 1/31/2018 at 1:35 PM, jack of shadows said:

@niniel,

.."because he trusted her completely."

 

did he?

did rand trust moiraine completely?

Yes I would say that Rand eventually comes to the conclusion that Moiraine was completely trustworthy. I feel the only aes sedai he trusted was Moiraine, nynaeve, Elayne, and maybe cadsuane to a point. Even mat trusts her and thinks of her fondly, albeit begrudgingly.

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On 1/31/2018 at 3:10 PM, Maedelin said:

Rand trusted Alivia, who was basically ignored in the entire last book except at the end where she "helps Rand die".  The whole thing didn't make sense.  Alivia's great job was to...acquire some clothes, money, and a horse.  If she had gone in with Rand, would that greater power have helped?  Wouldn't that make more sense?

 

I love Moirraine.  I just don't understand the thought process behind who went in with Rand.  Hell, even Aviendha could have.

 

Moiraine was the logical choice.

 

Alivia's "job" was to "help Rand die", not to help him fight the DO. By fighting the DO, she wouldn't have been helping him die. By getting him provisions to escape during the funeral, she was helping him "die" (everyone thought that the funeral was for him, and if he had been around and awake when people came back, it would have gotten out pretty quickly that he was Rand and not dead; with him disappeared, all it left was a mystery about who it was).

 

Aviendha had to lead the Aiel channelers.

 

Elayne couldn't do it, she was in charge of the armies.

 

Egwene couldn't do it, she lead the Aes Sedai. Plus, Rand didn't trust her implicitly; he felt she was more Aes Sedai than childhood friend, and would put Aes Sedai interests above his.

 

Wielding callandor put him in a position of vulnerability that allowed the two female channelers to take control of him. That's why he needed the only two people who he trusted implicitly, Moiraine and Nynaeve. (Just hazarding a guess here, but that's probably the reason he wrote in Moiraine receiving Lanfear's angreal - so she'd have enough power to make it worthwhile).

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All Alivia knew to do with the power is use it as a weapon.  Didn't Rand warn that Alivia didn't know control or her limits (I forget).  He could hardly trust Alivia not to lash out with the power once in control.

 

Edited by Sabio

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@failemandarb,

"i feel the only aes sedai he trusted was moiraine,nynaeve,elayne and

maybe cadsuane..."

 

your list of aes sedai is problematic.

rand loved and trusted elayne implicitly regardless of her station in life,

whether or not she's an aes sedai is irrelevant,it's like saying the only

wise one rand trusted implicitly is aviendha.

 

rand didn't trust cadsuane.period.post dragonmount ,he tolerated her

existence nothing more.

 

moiraine is a complex issue,the reason i asked niniel if she believed

rand trusted moiraine completely is because i have no idea how

to answer this question myself,rand trusted moiraine to a degree,

but completely?

 

last one in your list is our legendary nynaeve,rand trusted her implicitly,

no question about it,barring the 3 girls and maybe tam,rand trusted her

more than anyone.

Edited by jack of shadows

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Rand respected that Cas was trying to help but he couldn't trust her since she was trying to manipulate him.  The cleansing and Semi ambush proved he could trust her, but you saw she always tried to take control and assumed she knew best.  Rand couldn't have that when he faced the DO.  You notice the two he trusted the most at the end were two who went against Aes Sedai ways in order to do what was right and not what the WT wanted.  if you look at Egwene the further the series went along the more she became the stereotypical Aes Sedai.  

 

Pre Moiraine/LanFear encounter, no he didn't trust her completely.  He knew she was still trying to manipulate him.  Post encounter he did.  How could he not trust someone who knew in advance what would happen and still sacrificed herself to save him?

Edited by Sabio

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I wish to know why I keep seeing Moiraine  spelled incorrectly with two r letters. Is this changed in some other language version?

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Did anyone else notice that both Nynaeve and Moiraine were mother figures to Rand?

 

I think Rand definitely had mommy issues!

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9 hours ago, Mrs. Cindy Gill said:

He was a motherless child. He needed moms.

 

He got a whole Aiel warrior society of them. Which was actually very touching, when the Maidens revealed that that was why they were so loyal to him: he was all their children returned.  As for Moiraine as a mother figure, it gets doubly creepy when one remembers that in one possible future, she bedded him to secure his trust. (Shudders and vomits a little)

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7 hours ago, Forshookt said:

 

He got a whole Aiel warrior society of them. Which was actually very touching, when the Maidens revealed that that was why they were so loyal to him: he was all their children returned.  As for Moiraine as a mother figure, it gets doubly creepy when one remembers that in one possible future, she bedded him to secure his trust. (Shudders and vomits a little)

In the reality in which the books take place, she's the first adult woman he meets, is a mentor and protector, doesn't bed him, and is an appropriate mother figure. As was nynaeve. It would be a while before he met the aiel. Nothing wrong with a lot of badass women watching out for you.

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