Does the True Power work in Far Madding

[grump]

Some body was channelin in Far Madding besides the

girls with their wells. Who , How , and What?

[Beowolf]

^ What book and chapter was this in?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Its in Winters Heart, chapter 24, and it was either Jahar Narishma, or Damer Flinn. Jordan said it was Flinn at a booksigning per encyclopaedia-wot.org, but the textual clues seem to point to Narishma, who Shalon notices is absent from the party at the time it occurs.

 

The ter'angreal that protects Far Madding has three concentric zones, an inner zone that covers just the city itself, which blocks saidar and saidin, an intermediate zone that is slightly larger and only blocks saidin, and the largest zone, which detects either men or women channeling, and triangulates their position.

 

Sarene gives a brief explanation of the ter'angreal's functioning in WH, ch 33.

[grump]

Winters Heart Page 551 Remember the men are shut down a mile or so before the women and once in far madding is just not there for the ordanary channler

 

so who was channeling in far madding at that precise time?

[Beowolf]

^ Let me restate what RAW just said. :roll: There are 3 "layers" to the Far Madding Block. The inner layer blocks both powers. The middle layer blocks only Saidin. The outer layer blocks neither power, but locates both of them. The channeler, supposedly Flinn, was channeling Saidin in the outer layer.

 

However, in theory, it should be possible to channel the True Power anywhere in Far Madding. This bears no relevance, but there it is.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I'm not willing to say 100 percent for sure that the True Power could not be used there ... but if it could, why wouldn't Moridin have swooped in and captured Rand himself while he was in Far Madding, or at least taken the access keys to the Choedan Kal? Its clear he wanted them, and that he knew Rand had them there. If he could use the True Power, in a place where Rand had only his sword, it would have been childs play.

 

Frankly, I'm a bit surprised that Shaidar Haran didn't do just that ... except that I think Shaidar Haran uses the True Power in an undiluted form, and so may not have been able to function in a stedding ...

 

Not only that, but only people who are able to channel the One Power are able to use the True Power. That indicates that there is some similarity in how they are accessed. So, something that completely blocks the ability to channel would most likely block the True Power, as well as the One Power.

[Beowolf]

^ So within the middle layer of Far Madding, would women be able to use the True Power, or just men? :D The Steddings block the One Power, serve as complete blocks from that source. The True Power, however, comes from a completly different source, the Dark One. That's why I don't thnk the Far Madding Effect blocks the True Power. Steddings, maybe, but not the Far Madding Effect, unless you're suggesting that there are gender-specific Steddings, like the middle layer of Far Madding.

 

Also, as to Moiridin, why didn't he send in a bunch of Darkfriends disguised as merchants or travelers? That too would have been very easy...

[grump]

Remember Moridin is playing both sides like against each other He thinks he is playing that game with the Fisher in it and the fisher is useful to both sides until he is placed in his last position on the last move. The difference Is Rand has the power to make that choice. He is both Tavern and the Dragon

Reborn

[Luckers]

So within the middle layer of Far Madding, would women be able to use the True Power, or just men?

 

Men cannot channel in the middle layer, women can. And the middle layer is not inside Far Madding. It goes like this.

 

Inner Layer - A concentric circle that includes the entire city. Neither men nor women can channel.

 

Middle Layer - Extends about a mile beyond the border of the inner layer, and men cannot channel within in it, but women can.

 

Outer Layer - Extends an indeterminate length beyond the middle layer, and only detects channeling, but does not interfere with it.

 

Flinn channeling in the Outer Layer was done intentionally by Cadsuane in order to set up fear in the Councils. It was to open the door to the discussion about Rand, what his forces could do to Far Madding should the Councils cross him. Cadsuane (and Verin, incidently) was laying groundwork should Rand be captured.

 

As for the True Power, i doubt it would work there. Aside from Robert's very correct points reguarding Moridin, there is the fact that we know the ability to draw on it behaves to the same rule as the ability to draw on the One Power--indeed, i believe that they are a function of the same mental 'arm' reaching out to tap them.

 

We know that, for instance, a shield to stops a person being able to reach out and draw on the One Power also stops them from being able to draw on the True Power, and it does that by containing or binding that 'arm'. Stedding and Far Madding, on the other hand, seem to extend the distance between the channeler and the power... making it too far for that 'arm' to reach. They seem to be somewhat out of phase with the rest of reality around them, and i doubt the person would be able to reach the dark one anymore then they could reach the One Power.

[Beowolf]

^ Luckers you know I didn't mean to say the middle layer was within Far madding( I said it was of Far Madding, if you're going to get technical, get your stuff right. :roll: :lol: ), so there was no need for a recap of what I clarified like 4 posts ago...

 

Anyway, so in a Saidin-specific stedding, like the middle layer, you say women would not be able to channel the True Power, but they would be able to channel the One Power? or do you say women would be able to channel the True Power, but men wouldn't be, even though they tap into the same source as the women are using?

[baalzamon]

it all depends on what the ter angreal blocks, does it block the ability or the soruce, if ablility then no one could channel of any kind in the city and no men of any kind in middle layer. if it blocks ability it may or may not block true source. remember, its not like the true source is new. those who made the ter angreal may have made it with the true source in mind.

[Elwinn Taron]

I always thought it was Jahar that channeled, using Cadsuane's well. When Shalon noticed he was not with Merise, in the stableyard, I thought it was obvious.

[Beowolf]

With a normal shield, you basically put a box around the 'arm' that Luckers was talking about. With a Stedding, the arm can stretch as much as it wants, it just can't reach anything, because there's apparently nothing there to reach.

 

Now, let me get this straight, is the Far Madding Effect Ter'angreal based, or is it a normal stedding? If it's one or more stedding, does that mean gender-specific stedding do exist?

 

EDIT: Also, a guy would have trouble using a well for Saidar, unless we've finally found a magical both-genders Ter'angreal...

[stoneface]

My undersanding of the channeling of saidin that was detected at Far Madding is:

 

Warder bonding perception of emotions still works in Far Madding (specifically mentioned with Rand and Min. The saidin was detected in the outer band. So a warder-Ashaman (presumably Jahar) stayed outside (possibly Travelled to a different spot), waited for a particular signal (presumably a particular emotion) through the bond, and then channeled while within that outer (detection only) band.

 

The result is that Far Madding detects the use of saidin at just the right moment, or at least close enough. Cadsuane set it up so that the timing did not have to be to the second, but maybe within a minute or so.

[grump]

Ok My question is this Since it was a man channeling where did he have to be First to be able to channel and second to be dectected doing it ?

[Luckers]

Luckers you know I didn't mean to say the middle layer was within Far madding( I said it was of Far Madding, if you're going to get technical, get your stuff right. ), so there was no need for a recap of what I clarified like 4 posts ago...

 

I was clarifying something several people seemed to be having issues with, not something you specifically were wrong about.

 

Anyway, so in a Saidin-specific stedding, like the middle layer, you say women would not be able to channel the True Power, but they would be able to channel the One Power? or do you say women would be able to channel the True Power, but men wouldn't be, even though they tap into the same source as the women are using?

 

No clue, frankly.

 

I always thought it was Jahar that channeled, using Cadsuane's well. When Shalon noticed he was not with Merise, in the stableyard, I thought it was obvious.

 

No, if the channeling had occured within the boundaries of the ter'angreals effects it would have occaisioned a much larger reaction from the Councils. This occured outside Far Madding.

 

Now, let me get this straight, is the Far Madding Effect Ter'angreal based, or is it a normal stedding? If it's one or more stedding, does that mean gender-specific stedding do exist?

 

I believe that it is purerly ter'angreal based, though i suppose its possible the ter'angreal manipulates an existing stedding... i doubt it though, for starters how would the ter'angreal have been made or activated within the stedding.

 

Ok My question is this Since it was a man channeling where did he have to be First to be able to channel and second to be dectected doing it ?

 

Outside the middle barrier, but inside the outer. We simply do not know, however, how far the outer layer extends... its possible the detection field works for many miles. For the sake of the point Cadsuane was making, however, it would make sense that the it was relatively close to Far Madding.