Clichés/Tropes Discussion

[wheeloftime13]

Alright, so in books and movies there are types of storylines and characters that are so common that they become a cliché or trope. First let us talk about cliché that

 

A) We love

B) Annoy us

C) we like in certain situations (give examples where you do or don't like it)

 

Common clichés:

1. orphan/chosen one

2. prophecy/destiny

3. wise old advisor

4 love at first sight

5. class jumping

6. raised poor but is really an aristocrat in disguise.

 

I will give examples once I get on my computer, but for now, what are your thoughts?

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

I love the cliche of the orphan or unhappy child destined for greatness. It's a common fantasy of sad children everywhere I think. Those stories give a lot of hope.

 

I very much dislike the love at first sight trope. It leads to all kinds of unrealistic and even dangerous expectations.

[Niniel]

I usually like the mentor/old wise man but you always know that something is going to happen to him so that the hero can figure things out on their own and really become the hero. 

 

I agree with Cindy about love at first sight. Or when the young couple start off by arguing all the time and so you know they will end up together. Often it´s not even explained why they get together. 

[Leyrann]

Twuuuuue looooooovve

[Ironeyes]

And the old wise mentor always manages to die halfway through a la Ben Kenobi. Actually, while I'm thinking about it, the entire basic plotline from the first Star Wars movie is re-used pretty much everywhere. Even in its own sequels (looking at you, Force Awakens)

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

Star Wars is just a remake of seven samurai, classic heroes journey

[Ithillian Turambar]

I think Gandalf dying precedes Star Wars

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

And Jesus and Osiris and all

[Ithillian Turambar]

Youngsters today lol

[Leyrann]

Now I'm trying to think of one of the classics where a mentor figure dies, but I don't know them that well...

[LedZepMan]

Now I'm trying to think of one of the classics where a mentor figure dies, but I don't know them that well...

Star Wars.........

[LedZepMan]

Oh, Marsh said that.

 

Ummm

 

Doesn't the old Chinese guy die in the karate kid?

[Leyrann]

 

Now I'm trying to think of one of the classics where a mentor figure dies, but I don't know them that well...

Star Wars.........

 

 

Classics, I said. You know, those 2000+ years old works by Homer and Ovid and such people.

[Niniel]

There are several versions of the hero´s journey. Here is the one that I have used when teaching.

 

http://www.thewritersjourney.com/graphictwo.gif

 

 

 

The most important is that the mentor is not able to help when hero need him/her the most. He/she doesn´t need to die. 

[Leyrann]

In the book I'm working on there's a mentor figure, but the "hero" (more just the main character) just learns everything and afterwards the fight is a joint battle where people are basically equal. Probably somewhere halfway through the hero will be on equal level with the mentor (and no he won't go on and become much more powerful than the mentor or something).

[Panchi]

Theseus's father died when he failed to change the colour of sails.

 

That's the closest thing I could think of

[Leyrann]

Not really a mentor figure though... They barely even knew each other beforehand, right?

[Panchi]

Yes. But he was (or might have been) the father and that is close to mentor.

 

Myths do have stories about gods turning to old men to test people, ie, old people appearing and disappearing after giving a lesson. Mentor dying might be an evolved form of this.

[wheeloftime13]

The secret fathering being all powerful comes from mythology too I believe. Although some people would argue that women did that to protect those they secretly loved or their infidelity. Mythology has a lot of cliché stuff, but maybe they became cliché because people were so enamored of the supernatural and mysterious tales.

[wheeloftime13]

Theseus's father died when he failed to change the colour of sails.

That's the closest thing I could think of

Most versions of the myth say that was just because Theseus was thoughtless and forgetful. Some versions of Theseus' story is confusing in the father element.

[LedZepMan]

Icarus, and his wings of feather and wax.

 

I prefer this version of the tale.

 

Edited June 29, 2017 by LedZepMan

[Leyrann]

The secret fathering being all powerful comes from mythology too I believe. Although some people would argue that women did that to protect those they secretly loved or their infidelity. Mythology has a lot of cliché stuff, but maybe they became cliché because people were so enamored of the supernatural and mysterious tales.

 

When Tolkien had his Elves Vs Dwarves thing, it was new.

 

Now it's super cliché.

 

Most of the things that Tolkien did with elves that were new are now cliché, by the way.

[Leyrann]

Icarus, and his wings of feather and wax.

 

I prefer this version of the tale.

 

 

But I'm still busy listening to Shad's song!