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Blood and bloody ashes, Red Eagle! What the hell is going on?

 

So now you want to make mobile WoT RPGs, some game about Forsaken fighting for Nae'blis, making WoT movies DESPITE more than HALF the fans not supporting the movies.

 

Is there any new news?

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First of all, they're not going to make a game about WoT. Any and all game projects about WoT have been cancled.

 

Secondly, a WoT movie doesn't have to appeal exclusively to the fans. 

 

No, don't count on there ever being any game/movie/series made on the books. Just like you fans want it.

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Blood and bloody ashes, Red Eagle! What the hell is going on?

 

So now you want to make mobile WoT RPGs, some game about Forsaken fighting for Nae'blis, making WoT movies DESPITE more than HALF the fans not supporting the movies.

 

Is there any new news?

It's not that fans don't support there being movies, they just don't support Red Eagle. Also Arez, last I heard the Aiel War game is still going to be released, I think an original concept art from it was in the charity auction at Jordancon. I over heard the Red Eagle guys talking with someone about it.

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As far as the Red Eagle post, everything looks standard as far as it's development. Just because a game is being produced by a company doesn't mean they have to keep information on it public. Don't get me wrong I have no love for Red Eagle, but until they flat out say they are no longer doing it, or lose the rights, which in my notes it's still a few years away then they are probably still trying to release the game.

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Absolutely nothing is not standard.  Standard is putting up at least some bio/identification of the lead developer and/or the development team, even if you don't want to keep the fans up to date on progress for some reason.  Red Eagle floated a Kickstarter that would basically have hired Jet Set to develop a game for them to sell, that game being essentially a skin of JS's already released Highborn game.  They gave no indication that they would fund a game whether the Kickstarter succeeded or not, and every indication is that they wouldn't.  Red Eagle simply doesn't have the assets to risk to pay for the development of a game on their own.  Because their proposed game was just a skin on Highborn, if RE had decided to fund the game on their own, it would have already been released. They own basically two things of any value, their comic book series, and the WoT IP, with the former being dependent upon the latter.  Neither is enough to pay for a game or a movie. They don't have the in-house expertise to develop these things on their own, so they have to hire firms who can.  But these firms, even if they really wanted to produce a WoT-themed game/movie, have no incentive to produce it on their own dime, then turn over any percentage of the revenue over to RE merely because RE holds the IP rights.  They're better off waiting for RE's rights to expire, and purchasing them for themselves if they've got a solid plan and desire to follow through with it.  Red Eagle is barely making it as a comic-book publisher, they simply don't have the capacity to expand into movies and games.

 

Fans that want WoT games have a couple of choices.  1.) write your own game and present the finished (or nearly finished) product to RE, accept that they're gonna take a percentage of your revenue, and use Kickstarter to finish it up and take it to market (it should be basically market-ready before the Kickstarter is started, and it should be noted that this is likely a pipe dream) or 2.) Wait for RE's rights to the WoT IP to expire and hope that a well-funded game developer or movie studio buys them up.  The third option is to hope that RE manages to somehow make a ton of money on their existing assets, that they sell enough comic books to justify leveraging that operation and hire a third party to develop a game/movie for them.  But that's a bigger pipe dream than the first option.

Edited by Thrasymachus

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Red Eagle don't have any money to pay for things by themselves. They are a rights-handling organisation, nothing more. This means that they are dependent on attracting investors, publishers and studios, and so far have not succeeded in doing any of that. Anyway, the current situation on all of these projects is:

 

The Single-Player Computer Game

Red Eagle and Obsidian Entertainment are supposed to be making a single-player RPG. There is a strong concept and story already in place, written by Chris Avellone, simply the finest writer of RPGs in the western hemisphere. Obsidian are happy to proceed, they just need the money. Inexplicably, Red Eagle signed a deal with EA to publish the game, but not fund it (which is really, really weird). Which leaves Red Eagle with absolutely nowhere to go. Another company isn't going to get involved to fund the game when EA are going to take the profits (as publishers always do). So EA steps up and funds the game, or the project fades away (which seems more likely at this time).

 

The Social Game

This is pretty much completely dead in the water at this time. The Kickstarter failed miserably.

 

The Movie/TV Series

This remains in limbo. The movie script was, by all accounts, terrible. Universal have still not greenlit the project, and it's been rumoured that Universal (like most of the big Hollywood studios) has taken all $150 million + budgeted movies off the table unless they are directed by mega-famous names, or are based on slam-dunk books/comics (and for books that's Hunger Games/Twilight levels of success; Wheel of Time is not considered to be in that league) for the duration of the financial crisis. In addition, the success of Game of Thrones has likely made Universal take another look at the TV option, but they may have run into other difficulties (risking a project that looks derivative of GoT, and possibly not being able to find a cable channel or network that's interested). Something that Universal may want to look at is the recent sprouting of Netflix/Amazon deals. One of those companies may see taking on a fantasy series as a viable project, and certainly Amazon would have the financial firepower to give it a really impressive budget.

 

The good new is that Red Eagle had to sell the film/TV rights to Universal to recoup some of their costs, so those rights now reside with an actual studio, with Red Eagle only on board in an advisory capacity. The bad news is that my understanding is that the TV/film rights may have been sold either in perpetuity (i.e. they'll never return to the Jordan Estate) or for such an incredibly long time, they may as well have been sold forever.

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No game will ever be done and neither will a movie. If a movie gets done it will be a disaster and probably on all accounts laughable. Their best bet, as I've always thought, is to do a video game. The video game industry is strong overall and they can get many fans to enjoy it if it's done well.

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I don't support any WOT movies.  Movies would have to cut out many major story arcs.  I would rather see a long term tv series, perhaps on HBO or Showtime.  You would be able to fit much more of the story in. 

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OK i am new here and i just wanted to contribute to the topic i am just wondering is this really going to work on TV especially considering the high production costs needed to convey the epic scenes(too much magic,battles,cgi) in this series i don't know why but after watching the travesty that was LEGEND OF THE SEEKER i am dreading a TV series it will look too familiar to GOT especially if HBO gets the rights to do this they will put gratuitous sex that's what they do. i am hoping for no TV series for WOT i don't want to watch another version of GOT.make it into movies,animation or none at all.

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Make a series, make a movie, make a game, make whatever. Something is better than nothing. The cowards who don't dare to watch the new can go cower in a corner and let us true WoT fans enjoy ourselves.

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After literally years of NOTHING HAPPENING shouldn't we just assume Red Eagle is squatting on the rights until someone comes and pays them a shit ton of money for them?  Do the rights ever revert back to Jordan's estate?  Tired of nothing happening with these guys.  I would love to see Shotime do The Wheel of Time like HBO has done Game of Thrones.  I feel like these guys are just in the way.

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OK i am new here and i just wanted to contribute to the topic i am just wondering is this really going to work on TV especially considering the high production costs needed to convey the epic scenes(too much magic,battles,cgi) in this series i don't know why but after watching the travesty that was LEGEND OF THE SEEKER i am dreading a TV series it will look too familiar to GOT especially if HBO gets the rights to do this they will put gratuitous sex that's what they do. i am hoping for no TV series for WOT i don't want to watch another version of GOT.make it into movies,animation or none at all.

 

HBO won't do this, certainly not before GoT ends. Starz, AMC or Showtime is more likely. Happily, all three of them are less likely to shoehorn sex into everything, so a cable-WoT probably wouldn't have too much sex and nudity shoehorned in (though we should remember there's a fair bit of nudity, especially when the Aiel get together).

 

After literally years of NOTHING HAPPENING shouldn't we just assume Red Eagle is squatting on the rights until someone comes and pays them a shit ton of money for them? 

 

Red Eagle doesn't have the TV/movie rights any more, it sold them to Universal. Universal is the company who's not doing anything with them (actually they are, behind the scenes, there just isn't anything to report).

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OK i am new here and i just wanted to contribute to the topic i am just wondering is this really going to work on TV especially considering the high production costs needed to convey the epic scenes(too much magic,battles,cgi) in this series i don't know why but after watching the travesty that was LEGEND OF THE SEEKER i am dreading a TV series it will look too familiar to GOT especially if HBO gets the rights to do this they will put gratuitous sex that's what they do. i am hoping for no TV series for WOT i don't want to watch another version of GOT.make it into movies,animation or none at all.

 

HBO won't do this, certainly not before GoT ends. Starz, AMC or Showtime is more likely. Happily, all three of them are less likely to shoehorn sex into everything, so a cable-WoT probably wouldn't have too much sex and nudity shoehorned in (though we should remember there's a fair bit of nudity, especially when the Aiel get together).

 

After literally years of NOTHING HAPPENING shouldn't we just assume Red Eagle is squatting on the rights until someone comes and pays them a shit ton of money for them? 

 

Red Eagle doesn't have the TV/movie rights any more, it sold them to Universal. Universal is the company who's not doing anything with them (actually they are, behind the scenes, there just isn't anything to repor

Isn't there a rumor that Min might get cut? I mean stuff like this is what will ruin it.

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OK i am new here and i just wanted to contribute to the topic i am just wondering is this really going to work on TV especially considering the high production costs needed to convey the epic scenes(too much magic,battles,cgi) in this series i don't know why but after watching the travesty that was LEGEND OF THE SEEKER i am dreading a TV series it will look too familiar to GOT especially if HBO gets the rights to do this they will put gratuitous sex that's what they do. i am hoping for no TV series for WOT i don't want to watch another version of GOT.make it into movies,animation or none at all.

 

HBO won't do this, certainly not before GoT ends. Starz, AMC or Showtime is more likely. Happily, all three of them are less likely to shoehorn sex into everything, so a cable-WoT probably wouldn't have too much sex and nudity shoehorned in (though we should remember there's a fair bit of nudity, especially when the Aiel get together).

 

After literally years of NOTHING HAPPENING shouldn't we just assume Red Eagle is squatting on the rights until someone comes and pays them a shit ton of money for them? 

 

Red Eagle doesn't have the TV/movie rights any more, it sold them to Universal. Universal is the company who's not doing anything with them (actually they are, behind the scenes, there just isn't anything to repor

Isn't there a rumor that Min might get cut? I mean stuff like this is what will ruin it.

 

That would only be relevant in the later books, she's not that important in the first book. (comparatively)

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well, since the show rights are owned by a studio, then you'd look for the show to be on either Sci-Fy or USA Network; as those are owned by Universal Studios.

 

 

unless Universal is willing to profit share with otehr parent compaines

 

 

Showtime - Viacom

 

HBO or TNT - its Time-Warner

 

AMC - Cablevision System Corp

 

 

 

given the bad blood between Viacom and Universals partner company "Seagram" over the ownership of USA Network; i can't see Universal parterning with Showtime.

 

 

which means we'll see the show, if it happens, on SciFy.  *gags*

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Make a series, make a movie, make a game, make whatever. Something is better than nothing. The cowards who don't dare to watch the new can go cower in a corner and let us true WoT fans enjoy ourselves.

 

The 'true WoT' fanbase is far too tiny to justify any expensive TV series, film or game ever being made. The new projects would have to, in the main, be appealing to people who've never heard of WHEEL OF TIME.

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 Something is better than nothing.

 

That is unequivocally false. The last thing RJ's legacy needs is for subpar material to be released.

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I've always thought that Red Eagle was a shell company hired to KEEP WOT from ever progressing to any other media.  The only thing they have ever done is release a crappy game so long ago few remember it and cancelled the graphic novel they barely began releasing until fan outcry brought it back or is that dead too?  Their rights expire next year or the year after iirc, but by then the window to launch everything is long past.  GRRM or Goodkind probably funded Red Eagle and it worked well for them, too.  Next when the entire WOT world is dead and nearly forgotten about someone will swoop in offer a token amount for the full rights and slam it out into every media format making RJ the next Tolkein.  

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 GRRM or Goodkind probably funded Red Eagle and it worked well for them, too.  Next when the entire WOT world is dead and nearly forgotten about someone will swoop in offer a token amount for the full rights and slam it out into every media format making RJ the next Tolkein.  

 

What are you on about? Sorry it's hard to tell from a post but please tell me this is a joke.

 

As for the rights, Wert has the right of it on the last page.

Edited by Suttree

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Maybe this was already posted (I have not been very active lately) but here http://asthewheelturns.tumblr.com/post/39233830033/rey-rigney-robert-jordans-nephew-on-red-eagle . This just re-enforces what RJ already expressed in his blog when he was alive. If RE are middlemen, they need to get out of the way. If they are not a middleman but instead should "lead"... that's even worse. 

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Red Eagle are a rights-handling company. Essentially they are middlemen, even by their own admission. With regards to the TV/film project, they re-sold the rights to Universal. Depending on how much for, the rest of the company could happily exist off the back of that for years to come. Fortunately, this removes Red Eagle from direct involvement in the film/TV series: they are advising and will have a production credit, but won't be in charge of the script (fortunately, as the script they did commission was by all accounts completely terrible), casting, choice of director etc.

 

Unfortunately, Red Eagle do seem to have a hand in the video game project, which is why it hasn't happened. EA has agreed to publish but not fund the game (if they funded it, EA would also understandably want most of the profits, which I guess would have been the sticking point). Obsidian has agreed to actually write and make it, but they need the funding. No-one else is going to fund the game if EA is still going to publish it. Red Eagle have created an impasse where they themselves are the problem: if they sold the game rights to EA, EA could publish the game and fund Obsidian to make it and it'd be fine. And Obsidian make really great games, so it'd probably be really good.

 

The only thing they have ever done is release a crappy game so long ago few remember it and cancelled the graphic novel they barely began releasing until fan outcry brought it back or is that dead too?

 

 

The 1999 game - which was actually a perfectly decent game, just not a very good WoT game - was made long, long before Robert Jordan sold the rights to Red Eagle.

 

GRRM or Goodkind probably funded Red Eagle and it worked well for them, too.

 

 

A slightly outrageous and untrue statement. GRRM and Robert Jordan were friends, Jordan was a huge fan of Martin's work and Martin penned an obituary for Jordan when he died. Martin has always expressed his gratitude for Jordan for his cover blurb for A Game of Thrones, which he credits with making the series a success in its early days. The notion that GRRM would do anything to spite Jordan's legacy is frankly offensive.

 

As for Goodkind, whilst I'm not a fan of Goodkind's work, this also seems beneath him. Goodkind mostly ignores the existence of the rest of the fantasy genre and had no reason to act as you describe. The only problem Goodkind might have caused is Legend of the Seeker turning out to be so terrible it put people off fantasy TV shows for a couple of years, and of course that problem has now been more than negated by the success of Game of Thrones.

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So since it's all now in the hands of Universal, basically permanently or close enough, do you think they will ever do something with it? I'm guessing yes, you don't spend so much money on film rights and then decide to throw them away, but I have a feeling that we won't see anything concrete in a long, long time--it's just too much of a risk at the moment, very expensive and no guarantee that it will become a blockbuster. I'm still hoping for a TV series though, but I have no idea how likely it is that Universal would go for it in the near future. Is there anything that could possibly make them want to do it?

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The Wheel of Time is an absolutely massively-selling series. In fact, since we learned that the oft-quoted 44 million sales figure applies to Tor's sales alone, it's even bigger than we thought. Total worldwide sales of the books are most likely in the 85-95 million bracket, which is absolutely massive. Obviously that's split across 14 novels, which translates out at about 6-7 million readers worldwide. But that's still a lot more than ASoIaF had before they turned it into Game of Thrones.

 

The series is way too popular and too potentially successful in terms of becoming a bigger franchise to be ignored forever. Eventually, a film or TV series project will come to fruition. The problems Universal are having right now are the ongoing debate between movie vs. TV (the books are too expensive to be on TV; they're also far too long to be even a series of ten or more movies) and also likely debating if it's a good idea to put it into the marketplace in apparent competition with Game of Thrones. GoT has gotten a lot of praise for moving away from traditional fantasy and WoT is - for most of its first book anyway - pretty much traditional fantasy. Simultaneously, there's been some disgruntlement with GoT's gratutious sex and nudity, which WoT would not have, and also with its 'stealth fantasy' approach, whilst WoT would be more clearcut fantasy out of the gate. The lack of sex and nudity also means WoT can appeal to a wider audience.

 

I think there will be movement with the project, but Universal may wait until GoT is concluded (in another 4 or 5 years) before putting it out there.

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