OlwenaSedai

What is your most controversial opinion?

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Do you have any really controversial opinions? If so, which ones? And why?

 

(Advance warning: as this is about controversial opinions, you can safely assume some people will find some of the opinions triggering. I do hope people can stay calm amd follow the rules. Admins, I hope you allow this thread, as I think it will be an interesting one.)

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Okay, I'll start.

 

1. I don't think whale hunting is any worse than any other kind of hunting. It seems to me the resistance against is based on little knowledge of the method, emotional arguments and flawed logic (for example: "oh, but whales are so intelligent!" Yes, well, so are pigs. They are on the level of a toddler in terms of intelligence.) I'll actually be having whale next weekend. Yummy!

2. I have serious problems understanding why anyone is religious. To me, it's as absurd as someone saying the moon is made of cheese, or the sky is yellow. I can understand some of the motivation behind it (it is comforting, to for example believe you will live on after death), but that's it, really. What I find most fascinating is that people dismiss old religions or other cultures' religions out of hand, like they're fairytales and completely silly. Yet, they are so sure their own is correct, and don't realize that in 2000 years, people will look at their religion as they themselves look at Roman mythology now.

3. I think wealth should be forcibly distributed. Today's system allows people to be born into extreme wealth or extreme poverty. Hard work is not what is rewarded, it's much based on your standing at birth whether you end up wealthy. I think there should be a "cap" to how much any one person was allowed to cumulate, in terms of personal wealth. The question of course would be who would do this distribution, and how would we make sure it didn't turn corrupt. I don't have these answers, but this is mainly a rhetorical excercise anyway, so...

 

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However, unpleasant Trump was quite accurate in calling much of the third world a Sh*tHole.

 

Wealth distribution is thievery.

 

 

 

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Yes, it is. But laws can be changed :) I find it odd that an individual's right to stockpile loads of money is apparently a stronger right than an individual's right to not starve, to not live in poverty and not die of preventable diseases because they couldn't afford vaccination. The right to wealth accumulation is so strong that we let it trumph anything else.

Edited by OlwenaSedai

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Greed for lack of a better word is a good thing. You build Apple. microsoft, etc. because you want to be the tops. Money at that level is a poker chip. Without the incentive to become filthy rich the common man would not have a job. 

 

You have a right not to starve, not to live in voerty or die of preventable diseases what you do not have is the right to force me to may for your "rights".

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That seems an incredibly simplistic view of money and motivations.

 

That said, if the concern is not starving and not dieing of preventable diseases, there are other ways of solving it than forcibly redistributing everyones wealth. Thats a bit extreme. I do agree we should strive to take care of the basic necessities of our countrymen however.

 

Be warned Olwena, you will get no concessions from Cubs. Only ridicule and mostly well thought out conservative policies, generally in equal measure.

 

As far as controversial opinions go, I think Religion is a sham that does more harm than good to the modern world, has no place in politics or government, and most of those who peddle in it do so for personal profit than legitimate good will. It stifles anything that disagrees with it, using books and policies thousands of years outdated, refusing to recognize that the world has changed more drastically in the last 70-80 years than it has in the last 3,000. I would trust a lawyer before most clergymen, because at least a Lawyer is honest about why they do what they do.

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I have never been greedy, and that might be why I have problems understanding that as a motivation. As long as I have enough to get by, and a little extra so I can also afford some fun, I'm happy (as a salmon, which we say here in Norway).

 

I think the key is to make the greater good, YOUR good. Iow., if you profit off the society being fair, then you will work to that end. The Scandinavian countries, one of which I live in, are good examples of this, I think. If you work and pay taxes, you get in return health care when you and your family need it, an ensured education for your children, and so forth. That means that you benefit from what benefits the public. The exception, of course, is for the very rich who can afford that stuff anyways, but luckily we 1) don't have that many people of that caliber in Norway and 2) some of our super rich are also social democrats, and support the welfare system that we have.

 

Cubarey, I think capitalism is only really a good system in a world where everyone starts out the same, and thus have the same opportunities for success. You and other proponents of it like to portray it as fair and "if you work hard, you will get rich", but he truth is that f. ex. the US has a very low social mobility. Most people stay in the socioeconomic classes they're born into all through their life. Regardless of whether they have 3 jobs and work 15 hours a day, or not. There is a saying that "if hard work made you rich, the women of Africa would be millionaires", and although this is somewhat simplistic, there is some truth to it. Capitalism looks like a great system if you've got the long end of the stick. And of course, our society is so indoctrinated with it that also poor people believe this system works for them, when really it's mainly there to ensure the rich and elites keep (and add to) their wealth. If you are already rich, becoming richer is easy. If you are very poor, it is almost impossible. It happens, from time to time, and those "success stories" are repeated to eternity and back to keep people believing in the system. 

 

The richest are rich by inheritance. IOW., they did nothing for that money except being born. And their parents usually gained money either by 1) finacial speculation / shares or 2) owning or being the boss of a company. It's the employees' work that build the company and makes their bosses and owners rich. Our system rewards ownership, not work. The people owning Wal-Mart get rich, not the people working there, ensuring the wealth of the Wal-Mart owners. I've never understood how anyone can call this exploitation fair and portray it as a road to success for the everyday Joe.

 

Re: shithole countries - I mainly think it's an extremely rude and undiplomatic thing to say. And I also think the US are not the ones to talk, the country was responsible for f. ex. the chaos during the civil war in El Salvador, supporting the militia which killed tens of thousands. And colonized Haiti for the first time in 1915. I'd say you have special responsibilities concerning those countries. (As for the rest of his statement - most Norwegians just laugh at it, why would we go to the US? Many, like me, don't even want to visit on vacation as long as Mr. Orange Head is in office.)

Edited by OlwenaSedai

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35 minutes ago, Andrej said:

Pork ribs are better than beef ribs.

There are people who think beef ribs are better? I've never met one.

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Just now, Nolder said:

There are people who think beef ribs are better? I've never met one.

 

You've never been to Texas then.

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8 hours ago, Nolder said:

The Wheel of Time is a better "world" than it is a story. (See: Star Wars)

 

Do you think the story was bad in particular or just that the world building was that exceptional?

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Capitalism: Free market economy doesn’t exist any longer in America. OS is right that capitalism only works in worlds where everyone had equal footing. In our system the rich get richer, the poor get benefits and the middle class struggles to pay for it all.

 

Re religion: I would even go a step further and say that historically religion was used to control the masses in Europe and the beginnings of American history. The church has been corrupt for a long time.

 

sh!thole countries: Tactless and undiplomatic to say? Surely. The truth stings sometimes though. The failing in our world nowadays is that feelings often take priority over truths.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Andrej said:

 

You've never been to Texas then.

No. And come on that's literally like the only place that might happen.

Don't you live in SD?

12 minutes ago, Andrej said:

 

Do you think the story was bad in particular or just that the world building was that exceptional?

The story was extremely tight and focused up to book 4 or maybe 5 (been awhile). Naturally character creep began to take it's toll even with RJs exceptional recycling of characters. Everyone acknowledges that the Perrin/Faile Aiel chase is "slow" at best. So parts were definitely bad in my opinion but yeah the world building was exceptional which kind of highlights the bad parts even more. It's the reason why someone might prefer a fanfic to New Spring.

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3 minutes ago, Nolder said:

No. And come on that's literally like the only place that might happen.

Don't you live in SD?

 

 

The story was extremely tight and focused up to book 4 or maybe 5 (been awhile). Naturally character creep began to take it's toll even with RJs exceptional recycling of characters. Everyone acknowledges that the Perrin/Faile Aiel chase is "slow" at best. So parts were definitely bad in my opinion but yeah the world building was exceptional which kind of highlights the bad parts even more. It's the reason why someone might prefer a fanfic to New Spring.

 

I do, but I’m not from here originally. Hey man, Texans take their beef serious :tongue: the comment was mostly tongue in cheek - but pork ribs seriously are way better.

 

I’d be interested to read some fanfics, particularly focused on the stuff you didn’t read a lot about in the series. The Seanchan and their history, the lands east of the Waste, etc. Books 1-6 were my favorites I’d say. Everything after that before Sanderson took over is a blur.

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"I think the key is to make the greater good, YOUR good. Iow., if you profit off the society being fair, then you will work to that end. The Scandinavian countries, one of which I live in, are good examples of this, I think. If you work and pay taxes, you get in return health care when you and your family need it, an ensured education for your children, and so forth. That means that you benefit from what benefits the public. The exception, of course, is for the very rich who can afford that stuff anyways, but luckily we 1) don't have that many people of that caliber in Norway and 2) some of our super rich are also social democrats, and support the welfare system that we have."

 

The Socialist in Norway has been fueled and paid for by the countries Oil Reserves. As those Reserves begin to dwindle the government has already begun to examine how it can maintain the high average wealth of Norwegians and the only real choice they have come up with is a return to Capitalism and market forces.

 

 

As for Capitalism per se, it is of course a flawed system , however it's still the only economic system that increases the overall wealth of society.  The owners of Walmart are by and large the children of Sam Walton who founded the company and investers who invested in the company. The company employees several hundred thousand people most of which have few if any marketable skills they did not learn while employed in at Walmart. So reality is either such people are employed by companies like Walmart and get paid for the value they bring to the company or they are unemployed, go on the dole and become a burdon to the greater society. 

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7 minutes ago, Andrej said:

 

I do, but I’m not from here originally. Hey man, Texans take their beef serious :tongue: the comment was mostly tongue in cheek - but pork ribs seriously are way better.

 

I’d be interested to read some fanfics, particularly focused on the stuff you didn’t read a lot about in the series. The Seanchan and their history, the lands east of the Waste, etc. Books 1-6 were my favorites I’d say. Everything after that before Sanderson took over is a blur.

I've read a few WoT fanfics in the past. Usually not Seanchan stuff though. People take the BDSM undertones and ramp it up to 11. I agree about the blur though. RJ really lost a lot of focus at that point I guess.

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5 minutes ago, CUBAREY said:

"I think the key is to make the greater good, YOUR good. Iow., if you profit off the society being fair, then you will work to that end. The Scandinavian countries, one of which I live in, are good examples of this, I think. If you work and pay taxes, you get in return health care when you and your family need it, an ensured education for your children, and so forth. That means that you benefit from what benefits the public. The exception, of course, is for the very rich who can afford that stuff anyways, but luckily we 1) don't have that many people of that caliber in Norway and 2) some of our super rich are also social democrats, and support the welfare system that we have."

 

The Socialist in Norway has been fueled and paid for by the countries Oil Reserves. As those Reserves begin to dwindle the government has already begun to examine how it can maintain the high average wealth of Norwegians and the only real choice they have come up with is a return to Capitalism and market forces.

 

 

As for Capitalism per se, it is of course a flawed system , however it's still the only economic system that increases the overall wealth of society.  The owners of Walmart are by and large the children of Sam Walton who founded the company and investers who invested in the company. The company employees several hundred thousand people most of which have few if any marketable skills they did not learn while employed in at Walmart. So reality is either such people are employed by companies like Walmart and get paid for the value they bring to the company or they are unemployed, go on the dole and become a burdon to the greater society. 

The problem with your argument is that Sweden, Denmark, Iceland and Finland have the same kind of system. And they have no gigantic oil fund.

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El Salvador and Haiti.

 

It should be noted that the the rebels in El Salvador killed civilians at a 2-1 ratio as compared to the militias or even the death squads. The problems of El Savador today especially the violence have very little connection to the Civil War and much more to the fact that the country is overrun by gangs (many of whose members are former rebles).

 

As for Haiti, Yes the US did interfear in 1915. But it also interfeared in many countries around the same time including the Dominican Republic who shares the island of Hispanola with Haiti. While the Dominican Republic has many problems compared to Haiti it's a paradise (that is even true when you examine the fact that it has suffered from US Interference far more then Haiti. Haiti has also recieved billions of dollars of aid from the US and other countries since the earth quake, almost all of such aid has been squandered.

 

Lastly, one of the arguments that liberals in the US make for allowing illegals from Haiti and El Salvador to remain in the US is that the acknowledge that those countries are shitholes and it would be cruel to make the illegals return to such countries. So , let's at least be consistent either we admit that those countries are shitholes and discuss whehter illegals from those countries should be given a break and allowed to stay in the US or we refute the claim that those countries are the least desirable places to live in the world and treat illegals from such countries equally with those from other countries.

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"The problem with your argument is that Sweden, Denmark, Iceland and Finland have the same kind of system. And they have no gigantic oil fund."

 

Icleland and Finland have nowhere the same level of affluence as the others. Denmark has decidedly changed it's policies towards immigrints in the last few years (went as far as taking adds in Syrian newspapers saying immigrints would not be welcome).  Those countries also have historicly had a very homogenius population that has influenced your socialist ideals. As you grow more hetrogenious that will start to break down (if for no other reason then peer pressure and societal expectations play much less an important role in personal conduct in hetrogenius socieities.

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1 hour ago, Andrej said:

 

You've never been to Texas then.

Thats because beef is the best meat ever. Its ok, your allowed to be wrong. :P

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It is not immigration, but increasing pressure from neoliberal interests that threaten our welfare systems. They  constantly look for new venues for profit, and the welfare industries must in their eyes be a potential gold mine. I have firm belief the welfare system will last, that people will see that personal greed is not even in their own interest. (There is STRONG resistance in Denmark aswell to the far-right agenda, I don't think the right will win the next election. The far left has been growing there, the ultra-socialist Enhedslisten has gotten between 8 and 12 percent in the last elections. They used to be less than half that.) And we still have really strong unions here. The unions are really who insured our wealth was used to the good of all, not just the good of few, and fought for all the rights we enjoy today. You are of course free to disagree. My point was either way that you claim a system like ours is only possible with a sovereign wealth fund, and I pointed out other countries have the same system and they don't have that. Most, if not all, of Europe have partly the same system. Universal health care for example is a given throughout virtually all of Europe.

 

I also think it is unfair if where you are born in life should determine your chances. In effect, we say their lives are worth less than ours. They die from bombs, malnutrition or diseases while we sit safe and sound in our "castles". Where I was born is an utter coincidence. I was extremely lucky, to be born in what is arguably one of the best countries in the world to grow up in and live in. I could just as easily have been born in the slums of Bombay or the Afghani countryside. To say that we somehow deserve this wealth and safety better than others, and thus should keep them away from our countries, is morally wrong in every aspect of the word. What did you do to "deserve" to be born in the US? Nothing. You just were.

But, back on topic. I have a WoT-related controversial opinion: I really dislike Mat... (Although I like him a bit better now than when I first begun reading the series as a preteen.)

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"To say that we somehow deserve this wealth and safety better than others, and thus should keep them away from our countries, is morally wrong in every aspect of the word. What did you do to "deserve" to be born in the US? Nothing. You just were."

 

You are quite free to give away all your wealth to those who you believe deserve it more. You are not free to insist that others have to give up their wealth for your concept of social justice.

 

"What did you do to "deserve" to be born in the US? Nothing. You just were."

 

I was not born in the US I am an immigrant and I will always be thankful to my parents and the US for bringing/allowing me in the US. However, I recognize that I had no right to be allowed in. I am thankful that at the time the US believed the immigration of my parents was a net positive to the American Society. But things, change, there are two many poor and underemployed Americans today to have the type of wide open immigration that is allowed today. 

 

 

Also while Norway has quite a socialist economy (again based greatly on your oil reserves) the same is not true in Iceland for instance which has both quite a developed social welfare net and a robust capitalist economy. So even in Scandinavia the Soicalist model you preach is not universally accepted. Also we are talking about countries with quite homogenius populations and rather small ones ranging from some 350,000 in Iceland to around 10 million in Sweeden which makes for a much more manageable situation. Also like to note that while 16% of Norway is said to be immigrants (includes children of immigrants) the three top immigrant groups are Poles, Lithuanians and Swedes as compared to the US where there are some 20 million illegals and roughly i million legal immigrints entering the country (for the last 20 years) most of these uneducated, unskilled workers who do not speak the languague.

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11 hours ago, CUBAREY said:

You are quite free to give away all your wealth to those who you believe deserve it more. You are not free to insist that others have to give up their wealth for your concept of social justice.

Why not? Fairness should be what we strive for as a society. If everyone had the same opportunities throughout life, I wouldn't really have that much of a problem with wealth differences, but that's not the case. People are born into wealth or poverty, and that's just not fair.

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